S2 E11: The Art of Being Bold with Eszter Horanyi

In this episode of the Type Two Fun podcast, host Karey interviews Eszter Horanyi, an adventurer, athlete, photographer, and writer. Eszter shares her journey from being a competitive swimmer to a celebrated endurance cyclist and bike packer, and now an avid trail runner. She recounts her transformative experience of living a mobile lifestyle and her deep love for outdoor adventures. Eszter also touches on overcoming personal challenges, including a finding resiliency from experience with abuse in her youth, and discusses the importance of finding joy and authenticity in one's pursuits. The conversation explores her perspective on living intentionally, embracing new challenges, and the value of mentorship and fortitude.

Eszter's IG

Ouray 100 Race

Endure by Alex Hutchinson

The Explorer's Gene by Alex Hutchinson

Transcript

The Art of Being Bold with Eszther Horanyi

Karey: [00:00:00] Alright, so I am super excited about our episode tonight. Um, or today, I guess by the time we launch. Um, I have here on the Type two Fund podcast, myself, Karey the host, and we have here Eszther Horanyi um, who is a true adventurer of all sorts. Whether by foot or water, by bike in a canyon, on a mountain, you name it, she's probably done it.

Um, her most recent, I think most recent, but you can correct me if I'm wrong, claim to fame was setting the unsupported Nolans 14 in Colorado. Um, the FKT there, um, we could talk about more about that later. Um, she's also previously won, um, women's race in the Colorado Trail race, the tour divide, and also setting course records at the same time.

Um, and also has been crowned the 24 hour Mountain bike national title or champion in [00:01:00] 2009. Not only is Esther an athlete, uh, but she's also a phenomenal photographer and writer, which we'll also get into later. So Esther, that's kind of what I gathered about you. Um, in a couple sentences, add on to that. What else do you want us to know about you?

Eszter: I mean, I think really I'm just an outdoor human. I don't do well indoors. There's too many straight lines. There's too much structure. I, I thrive on unknown and exploring and being outside with friends.

Karey: Hmm.

Eszter: And so yeah, I've, I've managed, I've been lucky enough to structure my life in a way that I get to write and take photos for a living, and then that provides a lot of flexibility.

Karey: Yeah.

Eszter: and I feel incredibly lucky to have put this together somehow,

Karey: That's so awesome. Yeah. I mean, not all of us are that lucky, but I think it's, I mean, it sounds like you have it. The way that you are able to [00:02:00] live. Let's, let's dive into that. 'cause I think that's interesting. We were just talking about this right before we, we started recording, but I think, um, you have sort of, it sounds like an intentionality around the way that you live.

Like you've, your energy that you've put forward has made that happen for you. It didn't just like, oh, it's super easy and I can just, you know, be off grid or not, you know, like that kind of thing. So can you talk a little bit about that and like your lifestyle and kind of, you know, your mobility and how that's kind of happened?

Eszter: Yeah. So about I think 11 years ago now, actually, probably 15 years ago, I started splitting my time traveling for six months of the year. Um, usually by bike, doing a big bike tour, and then spending six months of the year in a house. Then it actually, we lost the house that we were renting. Like the landlord had been previously really nice about letting us sublet it or whatever for six months.

And finally she

Karey: Mm-hmm.

Eszter: like you either want want it for the year or you don't. And so my partner at the time and I were like, well, let's just go fully mobile. So we bought a little trailer our little minivan could tow. And [00:03:00] yeah, went fully mobile. And that was in February of 2014. And since then, I haven't been in one spot for more than two months, which

Karey: Wow.

Eszter: has been a ride.

It's been a wild ride to think that I've been doing this for over a decade. And yeah, I've gotten to see a lot of really cool places and a lot of hang out with really cool people.

Karey: Oh, for sure. I mean, it just lends it, I mean, I feel like that's a conversational piece in itself is, is the way that you live and that, that lends to, um, like you said, meeting a lot of different people that you definitely wouldn't have met otherwise, which is really cool. 

Eszter: Yeah, the past, I think 10 years of it, nine years of it Now I've split my time actually between the US and New Zealand, uh, because I discovered that living in a van or a small space during the winter is like, it's actually

Karey: Mm,

Eszter: miserable. Not

Karey: for sure.

Eszter: in the video games or watching TV or whatever.

But

Karey: Right?[00:04:00] 

Eszter: I just have like a small little minivan over in New Zealand that sits in storage when I'm not there. And then my van here, which is more equipped for working and being a

Karey: Mm.

Eszter: unquote adult. Um, sits in storage while I'm in New Zealand for the winter. So

Karey: Uh, why did you, why'd you pick New Zealand? Like what, or did it pick you?

Eszter: oh, my brother went down there, um, in 2016. He went down there on a work holiday visa before he turned

Karey: I.

Eszter: It was the first time that one of the kids wasn't home for Christmas. my family was really big on, like, everyone comes home for Christmas and everyone's always like, uh, like do got, and so he went down to New Zealand for on this work holiday Visa and was like, well, I'm not coming home. And then I immediately was like, well, I'm not coming home either. I'm gonna go visit my brother in New Zealand.

Karey: Ah,

Eszter: down there and did, I think it was like a six week bike tour. Maybe it was eight weeks, maybe it was two months, somewhere in there. yeah, just toured around the south island, just fell in love with the place, met a bunch of just amazing humans. And [00:05:00] yeah, flew out of Christchurch back to the States and was like, okay, well I'll be

Karey: yeah.

Eszter: year. Like, that's a

Karey: Yeah.

Eszter: So now

Karey: Wow.

Eszter: seven of the past nine years and

Karey: Wow.

Eszter: I have as much community over there now as I do here in the States. Like it feels like a second home

Karey: For sure. Wow, that's, that's really great. Now, do you, are there other folks that you run into down there or here that is. That are like also kind of living similar lifestyle as you, like, they're mobile as well. Like, I don't know if there's like a community of people that does that. Not that you travel together, but like, you know, you kind of connect in that way or you do, you feel kind of isolated in that, um, in that sense at all?

Eszter: There. I feel like there used to be a bunch of us who, like we'd all end up in Moab in the spring. We'd all

Karey: Hmm,

Eszter: in the fall, in the San Juan in the summer. And then everyone, I mean in the best way possible, I say this in the most loving way possible, but everyone sort of grew up in a lot of ways and like bought property and brought, bought houses and like I'm super psyched for 'em because now I get to go [00:06:00] visit them.

Karey: totally.

Eszter: feel like in the past couple years it's been like there's been years where I like have never camped alone for an entire Moab season. And

Karey: Yeah.

Eszter: it feels like more recently like. We're all getting older, everyone's starting families, like

Karey: Mm-hmm.

Eszter: jobs grown up. Stuff

Karey: Mm-hmm.

Eszter: tried to avoid, but it does feel like the people I hang out with tend to like, especially in New Zealand, like there's a big van life community down there.

Um,

Karey: Okay,

Eszter: but they're all like sub 30 and I'm, I'm a ripe. like, I'm 43 now and like 30 year olds seem pretty,

Karey: Yes.

Eszter: days, but they're

Karey: Yep.

Eszter: they're to get out, they're psyched to like go adventure. So I'm sort of like, well, they're 30, but they're great. So off we

Karey: Totally. Yeah. And with those shared interests, you know, I think it's funny 'cause in our mountain bike community here in Phoenix, I kind of feel like, like I'm 43 as well, and there's definitely, I mean there's like. 60 year olds they hang out with, and there are [00:07:00] 20-year-old that I hang out with. And sometimes, you know, I'm like, oh, I absolutely, we wouldn't be friends in any other situation, but like, something about being outside and doing that kind of stuff together is like very, um, it just brings people together that, you know, might not be otherwise.

And it's, I don't know, I think it's pretty cool that it can kind of defy age, um, age differences like that. So That's really cool.

Eszter: And I also feel it's like, especially like in the new, in New Zealand where a lot of people are over there on work holiday visas where they're like, we're

Karey: Mm.

Eszter: years and then we're gonna go back and join quote unquote real world.

Karey: Uh, yes.

Eszter: most, like most of the visas are two years and they go, they work, they play, they travel, they do whatever. And I think maybe like, if I can be an example that like, that doesn't need, that's not the only path. Like you

Karey: Mm.

Eszter: be sort of wrinkly and older and still live in a

Karey: I.

Eszter: still do all these adventures and. Still keep up with the youngins, like

Karey: Oh, totally.

Eszter: that'll, that'll spark [00:08:00] something in someone to like, not follow sort of societally accepted paths.

Karey: Yeah, I think it's, I think it's super important. My uncle did that. He was a wind surfer and would, um, spend his summers in his van in the gorge in Oregon. Um, you know, previously they'd spent a lot of time like in Hawaii and then him and his. Wife's, uh, partner separated and anyway, but he would go every, every summer and just live there.

And he was an artist and would, would draw and for do sketches of people for, um, for his money, for his income, and substitute teach in the winters and then, you know, go up there and, um, everybody just, he, he's passed away since, uh, recently or a couple years ago. But, um, yeah, it was the same thing where like , there are so many younger people there, but he was like the grandfather of the gorge.

Like that's what he and everybody looked up to him so I think it's really cool. No, I'm not calling you the grandmother of New Zealand. No, but it's like, you know, I feel like it's, it's cool to have that type of a figure that is [00:09:00] like, okay, like, you know, I'm, I am making life work and I can enjoy myself and be like.

Uh, comfortable in what I'm doing and, um, successful in what I'm doing and still enjoying the life that you wanna live because a lot of people think it's impossible and it's cool to see that. I admire that. I mean, I really, I'm like, you know, how can I make that happen?

 But um, so now it sounds like, so getting a little bit into, I'm trying to think of which, which way I wanna go. 'cause I'm always interested in, um, because people kind of grow into being adventurers and, and what lends to their kind of, their upbringing or their personalities to like, make them seek out this, you know, this types of lifestyle or like grand adventures or, you know, like you talked about your, a little bit about your bike touring and things like that.

Um. But first of all, let's, I wanna talk about your photography and your writing, actually first, and then we're gonna go back. [00:10:00] So, um, you know, just looking at your Instagram, that's where I've seen, I think the bulk of your, or besides some of the articles you've written and stuff, like for bike packing.com and some other things, when did you start doing photography and like, your, your photos are absolutely beautiful.

I mean, they are stunning. Like, how, has this always been a thing that you've been interested in? Did you take classes? Like, tell me all about that.

Eszter: Well, thank you. First off. Thank you. Like is nice. It's always nice to hear. 'cause sometimes it's like you feel like you post stuff on Instagram and it just goes into the void and whatever.

Karey: Mm,

Eszter: thank you.

Karey: yep.

Eszter: I wasn't really like, I took a photography class in high school, like the old film cameras and, but I was sort of came of adventure age in the blog era when everyone had blogs

Karey: Mm-hmm.

Eszter: I sort of like, I was living in a hou, like a five bedroom house with seven of us.

Like we were all mountain bikers. We all like went out and played together and I sort of became like the unofficial documentarian of. Our [00:11:00] adventures, like via a blog. And so like, we'd go and take pictures and would write up whatever adventure we got into that weekend,

Karey: Yeah.

Eszter: on this blog. And that blog went for like, I don't know, it lasted like seven or eight years really.

Karey: Wow.

Eszter: so like, I think I've always been interested in using photos to tell stories in conjunction with words, but like big cameras sort of intimidated me and they're expensive and they're heavy to carry around. And like when you do endurance, long distance sports, like carrying a big camera around it come, it's a, it's a weight penalty and it's a time penalty.

And if you do it wrong, your adventure partners really

Karey: Hmm.

Eszter: at you. Um, I've been on both sides of that equation, so I understand that.

Karey: Yeah.

Eszter: Um, I start like, I, I was actually inspired by bike packing.com, like I was some of those trip reports that were on there. Like I'd written for them and just like used a little point and shoot stuff [00:12:00] or point

Karey: Sure.

Eszter: And I think that like in my racing days, they were interested enough in the story that they were willing to like put up with the subpar photography.

Karey: Mm-hmm.

Eszter: Um, which I appreciate, but I think I, like, I really look at like some of the trip reports that people were doing and just like the beautiful photos.

And I was like, I want

Karey: Mm-hmm. Cool.

Eszter: And so yeah, I got myself a real camera in, it was actually like the Covid, um, the Covid stimulus check, uh, bought me my

Karey: good use of your

Eszter: and the second stimulus check bought me a nicer lens. Um,

Karey: Very nice.

Eszter: really the start of like me learning how to take photos. So sort of 2000, and I this, it was a little Sony, um, office 6,500, which I still have like, it's still my adventure camera and it weighs, I've weighed before, like I can run with it if I need to.

Like, it's not. heavy. And yeah, just started hauling it around [00:13:00] on all my adventures, just sort of learning how to take photos. And then, um, was friends with a race director, the Uri Ultras race director,

Karey: Mm-hmm.

Eszter: in Uri, Colorado. And I'd run his race three times before and I was like, Hey, can I just come take photos at your event? And he was like, well, sure, like we can't pay you, but if you wanna come take photos and try to sell 'em or whatever, like, you're welcome to. And so I did, a couple people bought photos and I was like, oh my God. Like this is a thing, like you can make money. Like maybe

Karey: Yeah.

Eszter: beer money, but it's, I like beer.

Karey: Mm-hmm.

Eszter: Um, and then like, yeah, wheeled my way into like a couple other race directors sort of took a chance on me

Karey: Cool.

Eszter: willing to work for cheap because you're inexperienced.

Karey: Mm-hmm.

Eszter: Started shooting at some events where I just got a ton of practice photos in all sorts of light conditions.

'cause it's like when you're out there shooting events, you don't, you can't be like, oh, can you try that again? I missed a shot. Or like, oh, can we like the [00:14:00] race two hours earlier so we get better light? Like you, I learned how to shoot in all, yeah. All types of conditions. And it's just progressed from there.

Like, I still do some event stuff. I do some marketing stuff for some brands and I did a wedding once,

Karey: Mm.

Eszter: like the most, I think the most stressful photo shoot I've ever

Karey: Oh, sure.

Eszter: Um,

Karey: Did it turn out well or were you like, I'll never do that again. Okay.

Eszter: I, in theory, I might do my brother's elopement this,

Karey: Oh,

Eszter: fall, so we'll see.

Karey: very nice. Yeah.

Eszter: But

Karey: Wow.

Eszter: organically grown into what it

Karey: Yeah. Yeah. Which I think also is great. Like you think about, it sounds like most of your practice has been doing it in places and how you want to do, um, and also it's happened because you haven't like, have to rely on that, you know what I mean? Like, it's not your like sole money maker, or at least historically it wasn't, you [00:15:00] know?

And so you kind of have that option to like figure out when you wanna practice and there's not a real pressure. And I, I mean, that's the best way I think, to be able to get into something and grow and get the most experience possible. And props to the race directors, promoters that are, you know, that have you out there.

Like, I mean, yeah, like you said, it's probably, uh, you know, good for them because they're like, oh, all these pictures are getting taken. But then also, I mean, it really is good for you. It's a great growing moment and good opportunity.

Eszter: Yeah, it

definitely in debt to a couple of those race directors who were like,

Karey: oh yeah,

Eszter: never really shot professional photos in your life, but sure

Karey: go for it. Yeah. Oh, that's so cool. That's so cool. Now, um, do you have a different camera? I mean, you said you have the one that is like your adventure camera. Have you gotten other stuff since then that you do for like these races and stuff like that?

Eszter: yeah, so I have a full

Karey: Yeah.

Eszter: Sony a [00:16:00] seven something,

Karey: Okay. Yeah.

Eszter: Clearly, I'm hope, hopefully I'm better at taking photos than I am at knowing my camera technology.

Karey: You know, as long as you know how to work it, like

Eszter: I

Karey: I wouldn't know the difference. Yeah, exactly.

Eszter: frame, like work camera that only comes out for work

Karey: Yeah. Cool.

Eszter: then I have my little adventure one that like, realistically if I drop off a clip, it's a 5-year-old camera and

Karey: Yeah.

Eszter: be sad, but

Karey: Yeah,

Eszter: I mean, it's

Karey: totally.

Eszter: so.

Karey: Yeah, for sure. So then there's, so like some of the more recent things that you've posted are, , a bunch of like on the ridge line and Colorado or wherever you are and then like, so you're, when you're doing that type of stuff, like kind of action shots or whatever, is that, I couldn't tell if that was, you participate if that was a race situation or if it was like some of them were just like, you out also running, doing your hiking, whatever, or not, and you've brought your camera with you.

Like, is there some of [00:17:00] both on your Instagram or,

Eszter: Now my Instagram is purely like my personal stuff, like that's just me out with

Karey: yeah.

Eszter: Like

Karey: Cool.

Eszter: to like my Instagram as like my love letter

People and my, the landscapes that I get to spend time in. Like I love being out

Karey: Ugh.

Eszter: and

Karey: Yeah.

Eszter: photos and documenting it.

Karey: That's cool.

Eszter: I don't know. I find a huge amount of joy from that. So,

Karey: I mean, and I think that that's, I mean, just being honest, like I think that that is, comes through in your, in your shots is like, I think that's what I got got from looking at them was like, man, like you can tell that you're just like, the way that you capture it is very joyful and like, you're at home and like, yeah, it's really cool.

So that's, that's really awesome. So can you, can you talk a little bit about, um, then your writing stuff? Like, do you have training for, or do you just like to write and like what kind of, um, you know, the two are pairing really well [00:18:00] together. Like how did this become a thing that you could kind of do for, to bring some money in?

Eszter: um, well, I have, I went to school for physics,

Karey: Oh.

Eszter: degree in physics, and then I have a master's in mechanical engineering. So,

Karey: So not writing.

Eszter: No, not all. But like in hindsight, like as a kid, like I wrote all the time, like just stories and whatever, and I read a ton, like it was a total bookworm as a kid. And, but my parents are both physics professors and the, the, think like what the story that encapsulates that is when I was five and like completely into ponies and horses, they were like, when you get your PhD, we'll buy you a pony. And so that was sort of like you will go into

Karey: Mm-hmm.

Eszter: of STEM field basically, was their dream. And because I didn't really know, like the only role models I had were my parents who [00:19:00] were both in academia. And so like I didn't understand that you could make a living as a writer or like how you became a journalist or how you

Karey: Mm.

Eszter: Any sort of profession other than academia. Like I just had no concept.

And so I was like, well, okay, go to school for physics because I'm good at math and I'm good at problem solving and whatnot. And then took a year and a half off and became a bike courier, which, um, went over real well with my parents. as you can imagine. Uh, but it was super fun. Like it was a great year and a half of just like mucking around on bikes

Karey: Mm-hmm.

Eszter: back to grad school because honestly I couldn't, they were paying a livable stipend and I got to ski a hundred days a year and like

Karey: Nice

Eszter: it took them five years to catch onto the fact that I wasn't actually gonna get a PhD.

And so it was like five years of getting a master's in backcountry skiing. Um, which I,

Karey: to work the system.

Eszter: maybe [00:20:00] not my proudest moment as far as like. Doing good for the world, but it was a, it was a great five years of existence. Um, so yeah, after five years they were like, you're not any closer to writing a thesis as you were the day you walked in these doors.

And I was like,

Karey: Mm-hmm.

Eszter: that's, the fair assessment. Um, so they cut my funding, which

Karey: Hmm. Yeah.

Eszter: moved to Crested Butte, became a LiftOp, worked for minimum wage, but got a lift pass and like at the time, just obsessed with skiing and racing bikes.

Karey: Hmm.

Eszter: Like that was what I wanted to do. I wanted to ski and race bikes and I mean, eight 50 an hour didn't really pay rent, but like we figured it out. and yeah, so I did the ski bum thing for like three ski bum, bike racer thing for I guess it was like four years.

Karey: Okay.

Eszter: And then I got married, which so bizarre to [00:21:00] me now. Like I. I got married three years later, two years later, got divorced. Like, so that one didn't really didn't, I, I was not a good wife.

Not a good wife. Um, uh, but yeah, moved back to Boulder and was like tutoring, um, physics and just like not really knowing what to do. And I found introduced me, introduced me to this website that I was just like, just copywriting. Like a company could go on this website and say, I need 400 words for whatever, on whatever topic. And then I

Karey: Hmm.

Eszter: there and write those 400 words and they paid per word. And I got really, really efficient at it. Like I figured out that system and was just writing like Matt on like, it was like seven or I did that for six or seven years. And it was

Karey: Oh wow.

Eszter: it let me go mobile. taught me how to write efficiently.

It taught me really good grammar. It taught me really good, you know, it taught, taught me how to write basically. I tried to do some freelance stuff [00:22:00] when I was bike racing, like I wrote for Velo news some, and I wrote

Karey: Mm-hmm.

Eszter: Mountain Flyer, which was based out of Gunnison at the time. But it was like, it was one of those things, it was like a hundred dollars here, a hundred dollars there.

And I was like,

Karey: Yeah.

Eszter: you, it's so hard to make a living off of

Karey: Mm-hmm.

Eszter: and

Karey: Yep.

Eszter: back then. Um, so I was just, yeah, doing this copywriting stuff and I did that for like seven or eight years

Karey: Wow.

Eszter: and yeah, like it was super flexible. Like all contracts, I could say yes or no and work whenever I wanted to. which is like the ultimate if you're looking for freedom and if I disappeared for two weeks, no one cared. So like

Karey: Right.

Eszter: it gave me that taste of like, I can prioritize adventure and I can prioritize spending time with friends and like friends over funds type thing. Like as long as I had enough money

Karey: Mm-hmm.

Eszter: cool, off we go. I. Then I became Adventure Partners with Megan Hicks, who's now the editor in chief of, I Run Far

Karey: Mm.

Eszter: and [00:23:00] she was like, Hey, I had this editing project, it's three months. Um, just help. I need eyes on words. And I was like, it sounds like commitment, but I guess it's only three months. So like, okay, fine, I'll do it. And then like, that was summer of 2022 and now here we are,

Karey: Yeah,

Eszter: years later? And yeah, writing and editing for them and then like bike packing.com. I've done some stuff over the years and,

Karey: sure.

Eszter: and yeah, it was just sort of like an organic, it was never, like I said out like, I wanna be a writer and photographer.

It was just like

Karey: Right.

Eszter: when people ask me to do stuff and

Karey: Totally. I,

Eszter: I have

Karey: yeah,

Eszter: clue how to do this, but I'll figure it out.

Karey: I mean that's such a, it's, I just feel like if more people have that attitude of like, I don't know for sure what I'm doing, but I'm just gonna say yes. When I can and like when it feels like a little scary, but a little right. Like [00:24:00] I think would lend to so much growth and eye-opening and adventure, like in life adventure as well.

You know, not just like outdoor adventure, but like, you know, I think that's one thing even, I mean, I'll just say like starting this podcast for example, like I had thought about it for a year and like mulled it over and never written anything down. And I was like, too overwhelming. And I was like, nobody's gonna listen.

And then finally one day I was just like, okay, I've gotta do it. And it's step by step. I found like a tutorial and I just did it. And the minute that I did it, I was so glad that I did. And it has been like one of the best things I've ever done. And to me, it doesn't matter if I, you know, I'm not bringing in right now, I'm not bringing any money from it, but that's not why I do it.

You know what I mean? It's like also lending to this experience of like meeting people like yourself and like being able to learn more and you know, I learn more. I learn about. The podcast, but also, or you know, how to do that better. But also I learn more about life and all this stuff through the people that I have on.

And it's just been [00:25:00] like such, such an awesome experience. And like I just, sometimes I think, what if I had not said yes? Like, what if I had just been like, I'm too scared, or, oh, it might not be perfect or, you know, it's gonna cost me a little bit of money to do this, or whatever. You know what I mean? Like it's all about saying yes.

Eszter: And I feel like there's this idea that we're like, we're afraid to fail. Like as a society,

Karey: Mm-hmm.

Eszter: on failure, which means so many people don't do anything until they're confident about it. But it's like, never done anything, then how are you gonna be confident about it? Like you don't know how to do it.

Like you literally don't know how to do it, and

Karey: Right, right.

Eszter: And then once you figure it out, then you can have that confidence.

Karey: Exactly.

Eszter: if you sit around waiting until you feel confident to start something, like

Karey: Mm-hmm.

Eszter: you are gonna twirl your thumbs for the rest of your life.

Karey: Totally.

Eszter: like realistically, like so many of the things that I've been like, well, I don't know how to do this, but like if I mess it up, like what's the absolute worst that happens?

Like I'm a little embarrassed. I maybe let someone down, like[00:26:00] 

Karey: Yeah.

Eszter: like five years down the road, none of it, none of it will matter.

Karey: exactly. Yeah.

Eszter: try it.

Karey: you probably learned, learned a good lesson from it, you know what I mean? Like

Eszter: exactly.

Karey: this is the golden, the golden part of it. So, oh goodness. And I also think , I mean, yes, you went to all the schooling , but like, I also think it goes to show that life experience can also be a guide to what you wanna do.

And it doesn't have to be all about just like, I mean. College education is wonderful, and if that leads you to the things you wanna do, then that's great. But it also isn't a means to an end or nor have to, you know, there's so many other things that you can, like experience in life that can, you know, give you those, you know, the next step or the next little plot in your path.

That I think is, is overlooked a lot of times.

Eszter: Yeah,

Karey: Yeah.

Eszter: only job I've ever submitted a resume to is to be a lift operator in Cresta Butte, and like that is they would take anyone who showed up to work on

Karey: [00:27:00] Right.

Eszter: most of the time.

Karey: Yeah. But

Eszter: But it's like every

Karey: wow, that's so interesting.

Eszter: gotten. Right. I mean, I'm

College degree. Like the Master's

Karey: Yeah,

Eszter: cool, like it's brand new inbox.

Never been used free to a good home, but like it was like it was

Karey: yeah.

Eszter: getting it. Like I

Karey: Yeah.

Eszter: about it,

Karey: Totally. Exactly. I mean, that was, that lend to experience is on, you know, in its own. And, you know, the, the process of, of getting that. So I have, I have a master's as well, and, um, and at this moment, well, I guess I'm is in music and I do a little bit, I still teach a little bit, but I was, you know, I was gigging and, um, teaching private music lessons for years and years and years.

And just fairly recently, the last two years I've been working in nine to five. Um, and , it's very much a, a lifestyle change for me. And so I guess up until then, up until two years ago, I, I was using my degree.

, having that experience of getting the master's and like the boxes, I had to check for that. It's like, it [00:28:00] taught me a lot of lessons too. Even if I'm not using it, you know, for my main money maker now,

Eszter: Yep.

Karey: So let's, as you were talking about your parents a little bit, uh, I wanna kind of like backtrack, there's a book called, um, endure by Alex Hutchinson.

I don't know if you've ever read that or have you heard of that book before?

Eszter: I've heard of it and I've probably read it, but if you

Karey: Okay. It.

Eszter: it was about,

Karey: Yeah, totally.

Eszter: I dunno.

Karey: Um, because I think there's also an End Endure by David Goggins or something like that, and it's not the same book, just

Eszter: Okay. That

Karey: just so people are listening. Yeah. That um, so, so that was his, I don't know if it was his first book, but his first big book and , it's all about endurance athletes of different sorts.

And like it's, it focuses on like the how, of the body and the mind and how a person humans go for can, can go forever and ever. And like how everybody's different and it's just, you know, kind of how evolution has served us this but the ability to [00:29:00] like push ourselves beyond and all that.

So he, he recently released just this month, another one, um, which I have yet to read. Um, but the first one was a good read. Um, and so this new one is called The Explorers Gene, and it's talking about the why, like why do humans feel this need to seek out a grand adventure or like a big challenge.

And, and you know, and he's mostly talking about, like outside endurance sports in all this. Um, and I think he goes into a little bit of other stuff,, in his new book. I was listening to a podcast about it, so I still need to read it.

But basically, um, one thing that he does talk about is, are all people inherently born with this explore gene or genetically are there some of us who are born with it and then out of preservation of our humankind? Some are , kind of born with this. [00:30:00] Pre preservation, like keep myself at home and safe kind of a gene, like that kind of thing.

So it, and I've been thinking a lot about that recently about how, um, 'cause like as I grew up, I grew up not adventuring like I do now, but I grew up in an outdoor family. Um, we camped a lot. My grandpa was really like, he was a mountaineer. Um, like really encouraged us to be outside. And so, you know, I had that growing up and, and I definitely think it lent to, um, my love of the outdoors now.

 But then again, I know other people that grew up with none of that and they still love to really push themselves outside and like explore and be off the grid and, you know, all this stuff. So my first question I guess is growing up with your parents who were in academia and that kind of thing, were they outdoorsy people at all?

Did you have this kind of experience growing up? Um. And what does, yeah. Yeah. Okay.

Eszter: I mean [00:31:00] Boulder in the nineties was Boulder, Colorado in the nineties. Like it was still the land of Subarus and Pre-Google and pre everything that Boulder is now.

Karey: Mm-hmm.

Eszter: was like, it was a cool sort of like we got to wander as kids. Like my parents sort of like

Karey: Mm.

Eszter: my two brothers and I like, cross this busy street.

Don't cross this busy street. But like other than that, have at it like be home for dinner.

Karey: Mm-hmm.

Eszter: But like we didn't, my mom hated camping. Like I think she

Karey: Oh

Eszter: it every once in a while, but like. She, she, she, I don't think she ever, um, enjoyed it, to put it lightly. Um, my

Karey: yeah.

Eszter: always like, gung ho, like, let's get outside and hike. But it wasn't like when people describe like outdoorsy childhoods, like that wasn't, uh,

Karey: Okay.

Eszter: we were mostly, I mean, I don't know. It's like I went to like summer camps [00:32:00] for mountain biking,

Karey: Hmm,

Eszter: a couple summers, and like there was one, like, we did some canoe stuff, so I guess like summer camps were outdoorsy,

Karey: sure.

Eszter: like, I didn't consider myself necessarily like an outdoorsy kid.

Karey: Okay.

Eszter: Like I definitely wasn't like tromping around mountains every day and

Karey: Yeah,

Eszter: getting to remote places. Like, it was like urban outdoors, not, not calling Boulder, urban is not the correct word, but like city outdoorsy, I

Karey: totally. So would you consider yourself a curious child? Like were you an explorer in that sense of like, you and your brother, like check things out and like, you know, you said you could wander, like, or were you just kind of like, you can't be bothered, you're just gonna sit outside and do your one thing and.

Eszter: I mean, I think like it was both, like, we definitely the limits of where we were supposed to be. Like

Karey: Mm.

Eszter: crossed those busy [00:33:00] streets and never told our parents about it. And, but at the same time, like, I was always, like, I spent a lot of time reading. Like I spent a lot of time inside reading, doing sort of more academicy things.

Karey: Yeah.

Eszter: Like, like it was a little bit of both. Like I, it wasn't like

Karey: Cool.

Eszter: ho have to be outside all the time, but I wasn't like, uh, indoors play video games, go outside.

Karey: Yeah. So you were exploring. Yeah, totally. Which, I mean that's, that's great as well. And it obviously lent to both, you know, your, I'm sure you're reading Lent to your love of writing and, you know, and that kind of thing. So you're , in your own way, you're exploring mentally versus, you know, um, the outdoors all the time, but, okay.

 I always like to, yeah, I, I always wonder how people grew up. So then let's talk about a little bit about, as you grew up, were you presented, I mean you mentioned summer camp, but were you presented other times like with friends and stuff that you'd [00:34:00] go out and do outdoorsy stuff or like when was the time when you really felt like you were going in that direction of like really feeling like at home and that drive or that I guess that need to be outside or like doing things.

Eszter: It wasn't until college like my parents' policy was that you had, we, all the kids had to do a sport. Like regardless of, they didn't care what sport it was like as long they thought that it would keep us outta trouble,

Karey: Yeah.

Eszter: Various levels of success, but I swam I was a terrible, terrible, like never made a stake qualifying cut, which

Karey: Mm.

Eszter: I don't know, like, it feels like most anyone can make a stake qualifying cut if you try.

Like, I have terrible shoulder mobility. Like I don't have flexible ankles. Like I was a terrible swimmer.

Karey: Yeah.

Eszter: Um,

Karey: the qualities you want for,

Eszter: yeah, but like I swim [00:35:00] all through high school and uh, um, when it was sort of like became apparent that I wasn't going to reach my Olympic dream

Seeing that I could not make a state qualifying cut. Um, I had this thought, I was 18 at the time that I was like, well, maybe I'll do triathlons

Karey: Hmm.

Eszter: because like we, we did some running like for, for training and. I had ridden, ridden mountain bikes as a kid. And so for a high school graduation present, I conned my parents into buying me a road bike and was like, well, I'm now gonna go to the Olympics for triathlon because am, I am delusional in that way. Um, delusional, optimistic. Um, I think it's a fine line,

Karey: yeah.

Eszter: um, especially at that age. But, um, yeah, so it was, I was swimming year round for this club team unfortunately, [00:36:00] um, coach had a bad habit of raping his swimmers, his underage

Karey: Hmm

Eszter: and groping them and sexually assaulting them. And

Karey: mm.

Eszter: happened to a handful of us and we now, 20 years later, have put him in jail, hopefully for the rest of his life, uh, most likely for the rest of his life. Um. It had been for me, an ongoing thing with him

Karey: Okay.

Eszter: I think three years, two years, two and a half years.

Karey: And how, how old were you

Eszter: I was 16

Karey: when this was going on? Okay.

Eszter: when

Karey: Yeah.

Eszter: I sort of, I don't know if I came to my senses, but I'd gone to college. I'd sort of seen, like stopped

Karey: Mm

Eszter: I'd seen the bigger world, like he was really good at swimming our entire world.

Karey: sure.

Eszter: it's really hard to escape from that or was

Karey: Mm-hmm.

Eszter: to escape from that when you don't, we didn't, I didn't know anything else and I don't think any of the other girls at the

Karey: Right.

Eszter: knew what to do. And then I had gone off to college but [00:37:00] was still swimming for this club team and still swimming for this coach.

Karey: Uh.

Eszter: And yeah, it was like seeing that outer world. I was like, this is, this is really messed up.

Karey: Not right.

Eszter: shouldn't be happening. I left the team and just like walked out one day, like, didn't say goodbye to any of those girls. Like we

Karey: Wow.

Eszter: together for four years, like six days a week, five hours a day.

Like, yeah. Like we'd spend our lives together. We spent more time with those, like

Of women, then our families and our school mates than

Karey: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Eszter: And yet, like, walked out one day, never said bye, and like never didn't talk to any of them again. Um,

Karey: Wow.

Eszter: 20 years later when we opened a case against this guy,

Karey: Oh my gosh.

Eszter: which is wild. Like, like of all the things that I'm pissed off about

Situation, it's like the loss of those friendships is what

Karey: Yep.

Eszter: I'm really, really pissed off about

Karey: Yeah.

Eszter: we were the, we were good friends and yeah, [00:38:00] just, I had to walk away from that and so I was well, well, swimming is off the table.

Karey: Mm

Eszter: one, like it's not really something that I can emotionally deal with. And two, I suck at it. Like come to the realization that I suck at swimming.

Karey: mm

Eszter: Um, and then I was like, then running is really dumb and hurt, which is sort of a

Karey: Yeah.

Eszter: maintain to this day, even though like running is probably my main sport.

So I

Karey: Yeah.

Eszter: was like left with bikes and so I

Karey: Mm.

Eszter: riding bikes and like started racing road bikes for college. And then the mountain bike team talked me into racing mountain bikes. And that's sort of when I like, was like, oh, nature trails, mountains. Like

Karey: Okay.

Eszter: is really, really cool.

Karey: Yeah. Do you feel like, or I guess my question that I was thinking of , before we. Shift into something else. When all, when this was happening, when you were on, on the swim [00:39:00] team, um, did you know that this was happening to anybody else but you, like, did any of the other, so it was all like you were isolated in the instances and nobody talked about it and nobody knew and then

Eszter: Know it. Yeah.

Karey: Yeah.

Eszter: is

Karey: Yeah.

Eszter: like sorts of things sort of came out at the trial.

Karey: Okay.

Eszter: but the ability for him to like have the confidence that he could abuse multiple of these girls

Karey: Yes.

Eszter: have them spend six hours a day together,

Karey: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Eszter: the locker rooms was, was our safe space,

Karey: Yep.

Eszter: but that he had the confidence that none of us would say anything is

Karey: Yeah,

Eszter: wild to me.

Like. That level of mental control is

Like terrifying, absolutely terrifying, that

Karey: It is.

Eszter: control over people.

Karey: Yep, yep. And, and you know, you, you're saying it's wild, but [00:40:00] unfortunately, I think is common in the way that these people who are predators like that get away with stuff. I mean, it's in their personality. It's part of what they do, um, when they're preying is they, you know, they isolate, they, and they fully believe and have every confidence in the world that they're not gonna talk to each other because of, you know, however, that, that mental trauma that, , everything that goes into it will it just makes it so an environment where they, where the victims don't speak about it.

You know, I think that there's so many people who this happens to that, um, they don't speak about it ever. You know, and just are ashamed, are, you know, think they're to blame, especially young people that this happens to. And it is, is very unfortunate. I think, um, you know, hearing you speak about this is, is [00:41:00] um, , you're talking about how angry you are and so obviously this is not easy and maybe, maybe, you know, putting him in jail.

It's just one step of the, of the piece of like, healing from this, you know what I mean? But also, I mean, I hope that in sharing that you also know that there are others, unfortunately, who are, who have experienced something like this. But also hopefully you're, you sharing will, um, either give courage or solace or, you know, that feeling of, of that there's other people out there that are experiencing this, um, that you can talk about it and not feel ashamed and things like that.

Eszter: Yeah, like, because I didn't talk about it for 20 years. Like when the, they first opened the investigation, they were like, well, did you tell anyone?

Karey: Mm,

Eszter: I was like, no, they're like not a

Karey: no.

Eszter: I was like, well, oh. I was like, oh, actually, like I got called in for jury duty for this. Um, [00:42:00] he was a sex offender who had failed to register as a sex offender 'cause he was homeless and

Karey: Mm.

Eszter: arrested him. so they called me in for jury duty and they're like, well, is there anything that we should know about that bias you one way or another in this case? And I was like, well, like this. Like I'm a victim of sexual abuse, like

Karey: Yeah.

Eszter: of childhood sexual abuse. And like, I had it written down and like, they, like, they actually use that in the trial against my coach.

Like

Karey: Oh, wow.

Eszter: find the trial records of me talking about this. Like, yeah. And like, which is like, yeah, I hadn't told anyone because like I, at the time I. I was fully convinced that like it was my fault and like all the things that go into being a victim and like, I didn't like with the Me Too movement when, however many years ago that was, I was sort of like, well, yeah, but like how important is it to talk about it?

And I'm like, well, it actually, like, it really is like, the more we [00:43:00] talk about this openly, I'm like, it's not our fault.

Karey: Mm-hmm.

Eszter: Like, and the more we like get the shame away from it, like that's like, I, like, I think the more we talk about it, the less it's gonna happen and

Karey: Yes.

Eszter: we talk about it with other people and other women especially, like the less it's gonna happen. So

Karey: would, that's hopefully

Eszter: talk about it.

Karey: the case. Of course. I mean, thank you for being open about it. I mean, it's not easy for anybody to talk about, um, especially, you know, publicly and on the record. And, um, and it, I am. I mean, I feel it's weird 'cause even I feel bad about like being, like, I'm glad he is in jail, but I am, I, you know, I'm glad that something, um, was done about it and that, um, those who were involved had the strength to come forward and make that happen.

And like you said, I hope it happens more.

Eszter: it was a really, like, it was a lesson in like when women band together, like what

Karey: Hmm.

Eszter: do. Because were three victims in the case that had like [00:44:00] chargeable crimes,

Karey: Mm-hmm.

Eszter: like there were so many other women on the team who like had things like weren't chargeable crimes, but like still like, would be considered abuse.

And like the fact that we were able to, like in a society where it's incredibly hard to prosecute crimes like

Karey: Yes. Yeah.

Eszter: the fact that we, we were able to put together a case after 20 years after no new evidence like.

Karey: Yep.

Eszter: Like, no, they hadn't uncovered anything else. Like they just did the investigative work and like listened to her stories. And the fact that like jury was out for like 75 minutes, like the jury was immediately was like guilty on all

Like there was

Karey: Wow.

Eszter: question in their minds. And like

Karey: Yeah.

Eszter: that we were able, like as a group of women to come together and do that, like that felt massively powerful because it's like you had to prosecute these types of cases.

Like it's scary and a lot of 'em don't get prosecuted because they're so

Karey: Right.

Eszter: And so like the fact that we were able to do it

Karey: Yeah,

Eszter: really, really an [00:45:00] empowering thing.

Karey: definitely. That's amazing. Well, yeah, I'm so glad that you did, and hopefully it helps the healing process as much as possible and yeah, go, go. Women

Eszter: Oh, women.

Karey: go. Women go, girls go. You know what I mean? It does, and it is. I mean, you know, again, the whole thing of like being isolated, I think that that's, um, an important thing is, you know, coming together is important and, and that you did it.

So. Wow. Well, thank you for sharing that. Really appreciate it. Yeah. And to all those that are listening, you're not alone and yeah.

Eszter: yeah, of

like all the conversations that I have in the sports world and during sports world, or sports world in general. Like this is the one that I think is most important and like,

Karey: Yeah,

Eszter: don't know, like I'm still learning how to 'cause it. The trial was just a year ago, so [00:46:00] I'm still sort of learning how to have conversations and like where I

Karey: totally.

Eszter: my emphasis and a change.

Karey: Yeah,

Eszter: But yeah, I'm still, yeah, I wanna keep having these conversations because I think they're important

Karey: they are, they are very important. Well, yes, and this is a great place. We have a. A good audience with an open heart and an open mind and a widespread audience. And so I'm sure, um, it gives people hope and, um, that, I don't know what the word is that I'm looking for. Not comradery, but like, you know, yeah.

That there's help out there and other people, so thank you. So you mentioned then going a little bit back, um, to your, like your mountain bike and you were like, okay, I, I am a bad swimmer. And also this is very mentally an emotionally not [00:47:00] happening for me swimming wise. So you went and found the bike and you're gonna be an Olympic triathlon.

So give us a little bit more about your journey on the bike and like, how did you get more into racing and then all of a sudden you're setting. Records and doing all this stuff is that It was records before a no, that was after swimming. Yeah.

Eszter: Yeah, yeah,

Karey: Yeah, yeah. So let's go into that a little bit. Yeah.

Eszter: got the road bike when I was 18, and joined the, the cycling team at University of Colorado because like, I'm a, I think a somewhat unhealthily competitive person. Like, I think one of the reasons that I've moved away from racing is because I am not emotionally mature enough to deal with the downsides of racing.

Karey: Hmm.

Eszter: of it aren't really worth the downsides anymore. Also, I'm like, [00:48:00] I've done it a lot, uh, yeah, so I got the road bike, joined the CU team and was pretty quick like the swimming like. I have a huge aerobic base. Like I probably have a bigger aerobic base than a, majority of the athletes out there just because it was like we swam six hours a or five hours a

Karey: Yeah,

Eszter: a week when you're a teen.

And when you do that as a teenager, like

Karey: exactly. Yeah.

Eszter: aerobic base,

Karey: Yep.

Eszter: like all the negatives that came out of that swimming situation. Like I've got a big aerobic base

Karey: Mm-hmm.

Eszter: and so it was like pretty immediately quick on a bike. And yeah, I had dreams of like racing for some of the proteins and but sort of lacked the tactical experience because like road racing really is like team sport and tactics and I'm not a very patient person and feel like in road racing they're like, you have to be patient.

Karey: Mm-hmm.

Eszter: Um, then got let off, left off the, uh, [00:49:00] the national, like the team going to nationals and like really like I should have gone. But they chose like someone who I. I had more tactical experience.

Karey: Sure.

Eszter: and like I was really sort of like annoyed at that and like, I don't know, I was probably like 20 at the time and maybe not the most emotionally mature to deal with that sort of thing.

Karey: Yeah.

Eszter: Um, but the mountain bike team always desperate for women and they were sort of like, they were basically like, well come race for us. Come race national. Like we don't care if you walk down the hill. Like all you need to do is finish the race. And at the time, like there were so few women racing

Karey: Right.

Eszter: collegially that as long as you finished, you were in the points. And so they're like, we, we just need the numbers. Like just come or race. Yeah. Oh, okay, sure. Why not? Like bitter about road bikes. Let's, let's go race mountain bikes. And I loved it like mountain bikers have so much more fun than road racers.

Karey: Totally.[00:50:00] 

Eszter: I was like, oh, you like.

Karey: I'm right there with you.

Eszter: after these races and don't mind if you get muddy.

And like the events are, aren't like parking lot crits.

Karey: Mm-hmm.

Eszter: Like you're actually in the mountains doing stuff. And so like pretty quickly transitioned to racing cross country mountain bikes. So like

Karey: Okay.

Eszter: hour and half, the two hour thing. Um, did that for two years ish, two-ish, three-ish. I got my pro license, like, which really buys you nothing except like a big chunk of your bank account because USA cycling takes, like, that license is so much more than like the non elite license.

Karey: Uhhuh.

Eszter: But yeah, like, I don't know, like guess sort of like mid-pack pro. Like I was never, I was never gonna be like. A super pro, cross country

Karey: Yeah.

Eszter: But it's cool 'cause like a lot of the women who I raced with, like have ended up at the Olympics and have ended up national champions and I was like, I[00:51:00] 

Karey: That's awesome.

Eszter: least

Karey: Yeah.

Eszter: them.

Like that's sort of cool.

Karey: Yeah.

Eszter: Um, but yeah, I raced the, uh, firecracker 50, which the 50 mile race in Breckenridge one year I think on a whim. I don't even know why I signed up for it, but like did, it was, it was the, uh, one of the marathon national championship, so some sort of like USA cycling national championship and I ended

Karey: Okay. Oh,

Eszter: sixth.

But uh, Jenny, whose last name is escaping me, but she's a Kiwi and so she ended up fifth, but since she was a Kiwi, she wasn't eligible

Karey: oh, yeah.

Eszter: race in the USA

Karey: Mm-hmm.

Eszter: And so they bumped her off the podium put me on the podium and I was like, oh, this is kind of cool, like maybe this longer race format is. For me because,

Karey: Yeah.

Eszter: because that was like probably the most success I'd had on a bike up to that

Karey: Yeah.

Eszter: And so then the next summer I [00:52:00] focused purely on a hundred mile events and was really quick at 'em. I feel like 10 years ago I would've been like, oh yeah, I was pretty okay. But like, like with the benefit of hindsight, like I was really quick.

Karey: Yeah.

Eszter: I won like that, that summer there, the only race that I didn't win was like the Wednesday night short track

Karey: Yeah.

Eszter: like Boulder that we had in Boulder.

Karey: That's amazing.

Eszter: huge success racing, a hundred mile races. And then that was the year at that, yeah. Lined up 4 24 hours in Moab.

Karey: Okay.

Eszter: it was a stacked field.

Like Yari was there, PUA was there, Sarah Kaufman was there. And I was like, it was end of season. I'd raced a ton. I was tired, like I didn't wanna go, but I, I talked to a friend and crewing for me.

Karey: Mm-hmm.

Eszter: was like, well, I took that week, like I booked that weekend to crew for you, so you have to go

Karey: You have to do it. Yeah.

Eszter: And I was like, oh, okay, fine, fine, I'll go, I'll go, I'll go. [00:53:00] And yeah, lined up and like went out and was like sitting and forth. And then Yuri crashed out and had to go to the hospital to

Karey: Mm.

Eszter: stitches in her knee. And I was like, oh, I'm in third now. And then Pua got super sick, like, I dunno if she got food poisoning or the flu or like, something went very wrong for her, like 2:00 AM and then all of a sudden it was like Sarah Kaufman and I like battling.

It was the national championships at the time, 24, our national

Karey: Yeah.

Eszter: And then all of a sudden we were like battling for like elite national

Karey: Like it's on. Yeah.

Eszter: gets on and like we ra like we never left the, none of us were, neither of us were able to leave the pit without the other person coming in.

So it was like, it was that tight

Karey: Oh my gosh.

Eszter: Like much until the end.

Karey: Yeah.

Eszter: uh, I think it was like 9:00 AM so we still had like three hours left to race. Sarah was, she called it, she was like, I'm done. I'm

Karey: Wow.

Eszter: her crew, she was like, I'm going out for one more lap, but you could tell Esther[00:54:00] 

Karey: Yeah.

Eszter: go out another. And so like, yeah, it was like 10:00 AM I was able to be like, like stop

Karey: gosh. Yeah.

Eszter: and yeah, became national champion. And like the really, like, I think this is a lesson in like never give up till the Fat Ladies sings. 'cause like the next time I went out on that bike, like 20 minutes into the ride, like the little like metal thing that holds the brake pads in like the, that thin little metal

Karey: Yeah.

Eszter: just completely snaps.

And I lost my brakes.

Karey: Oh my gosh.

Eszter: And so it's sort of like had that happened

Karey: Yeah,

Eszter: had Sarah kept going, like

Karey: yeah, yeah.

Eszter: won it.

Karey: Oh my gosh.

Eszter: That was sort of like, you don't give up until everyone's

Karey: Until it's, yeah. Yeah.

Eszter: Yeah.

Karey: Wow. Lesson learned,

Eszter: was,

Karey: but that's awesome.

Eszter: yeah, so sort of how I went, got into the a hundred miler stuff.

Karey: So what did [00:55:00] you, what did you learn? Like what are some of like the things that you remember learning? Because you know, you had mostly done like this short stuff and then you had like the 50 and then boom, you're doing these a hundred miles. , I like just either silly things or like things that you were really important that you learned in your first like few hundreds or like your long distance stuff, if you can recall.

Eszter: I don't think I learned anything at the time. I,

Karey: Okay.

Eszter: consciously learn anything at the time.

Karey: Yeah.

Eszter: I was in grad school, so these were the grad school years where I was

Karey: Yeah.

Eszter: Working very little and living in a house with seven people. And

Karey: Mm-hmm.

Eszter: in like, with the benefit of hindsight, I think the reason I was so fast was because I was living a really simple and joyful life. I loved the house

Karey: Yeah.

Eszter: in. We were all a bunch of mountain bikers. We'd go out, we'd ride together, and they were all fast dudes. And so I spent a lot of time just like chasing fast dudes around. Like I didn't do [00:56:00] any intervals or

Karey: Mm-hmm.

Eszter: training. And I definitely didn't do any core work or strength training or like any of that.

Like I just, like,

Karey: Yeah.

Eszter: and rode with friends and it was so simple and it was so easy. And like at then at night, like we'd have barbecues and it was, I think there's, there's really something to be said for like happiness, wats,

Karey: Mm-hmm.

Eszter: and just like, like often we, like racers take themselves too seriously, I think like to their detriment, like. Riding bikes was fun in that era. Like it was super, I loved riding bikes. I loved every time I got on my bike, it was a joyful thing. And if I, like,

Karey: Oh, that's great.

Eszter: a bike that day, like I didn't go ride my bike. Like it wasn't like, oh, I have to go,

Karey: Mm-hmm.

Eszter: to go train, I have to go do intervals. Like there was never an obligation.

It was just fun.

Karey: Yeah.

Eszter: And I think, I didn't really realize that at the time, but like looking back, it's like that's the joy. Joy is the most important ingredient [00:57:00] in

Karey: Hmm.

Eszter: endurance, I think.

Karey: Oh, I love it. I love that. So, have you, I mean you, we can continue on your journey, but have you been in this situation where you've either like had a more rigorous plan or worked with a coach or anything like that? Or have you always just done your own thing?

Eszter: Yeah. So like I did a few years of bike packing and then I don't know if it was like I. But then I got a coach and like, I don't fully remember, like, I think I just was like, I was having success and I was like, well, I wanna have even more success

Karey: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Eszter: Like, I was still winning stuff. Like, I don't know, I was still fast, but I was like, I should have a proper coach and whatnot. And like, I'm not, I'm just not a coachable person. I

Karey: Hmm.

Eszter: think, like had I not made that decision to have a coach, like she was an amazing coach. Like she is super well respected [00:58:00] in of coaching and she, like, if you have the mentality to like do structured training, like,

Karey: Yeah.

Eszter: it would've been great.

But I, and I get, she made me very fast for sure, but for me, I lost that joy

Karey: Hmm.

Eszter: racing and in

Karey: what I was wondering.

Eszter: And so I sort of do think that like if I hadn't done that, like I. Maybe I would've raced longer. Like maybe I would,

Karey: Yeah.

Eszter: yeah, like maybe like my career might have been but then like who knows? Who knows?

Like I might have done something else to do anyhow, so.

Karey: Totally. Yeah. It's always like, you know, the hindsight 2020, like, you know, if, and then, or you know, if then when, what would happen. But, you know, things happen for, I mean, I think things happen for a reason, whatever reason, or, you know, the universe brings it to us, so, you know. Yeah. I think it's, I think that's, that's really interesting to hear.

And yeah, I was curious about that, about um, 'cause I definitely think, like I have, I have [00:59:00] been a coach in those situations where, 'cause I used to coach road cycling, so I also have a road background and had the same thing I'm going to the Olympics for time trial. Like that was my like, oh my gosh.

And anyway, and then, you know, living in a, my dream land and. Uh, soon realized that I was not going to do that even though I was winning local stuff, but that doesn't mean anything. And I mean, it was great, but, you know, anyway. But, um, but I think that like, um, so I've been a coach and, you know, I've had, I've actually had to tell a client before, like, Hey, like, you know, I, I see this, but it doesn't seem like you're having fun.

Like, let's have a real sit down and like. Like, is this for you? You know, and not taking it personally on my account, but like, just seeing that like, you know, the, the rigorous training and the expectations and the planning and planning, like they said they wanted it, but like in the end, you know, and it was a really good, it was a really good split and they just started [01:00:00] doing their own thing and it was, they did really well.

And, you know, I think a coach might or, you know, could be like, oh, well they just, you know, they didn't like me or, you know, whatever, and take it personal. But I just think they're, you know, on the other side of it, like I've also been coached for both running and for cycling. And, um, I love, I'm the kind of person that like really loves the process of learning about the things and like, why this workout does this for me and then like picking and choosing when and if I wanna do it.

And so far it's been really good for me to have that, like, ownership of it I'm not saying I know everything and I know coaches have, have a lot of VA value and, and I have had some good experiences. Like you said, you got really fast, you know what I mean? Like, and I have been like super fit and super fast before.

But yeah, there's to some extent like, was I enjoying it? Was it worth it? I don't know. You know, like maybe it's not, I mean maybe it's like I'm [01:01:00] living, you know, lift my coach era and maybe I'm you, I don't know, you know, you have your, your eras or whatever,

Eszter: For sure.

Karey: but Totally understandable. So, okay, so go back to bike packing.

Like how did you discover bike packing? I mean, obviously with the endurance stuff, you're, I mean, it's inevitable that probably you'll start doing that, but I do think the whole bike packing and like being self-supported is a whole other, um, chapter of ultra endurance stuff. So tell me a little bit about that and your experience there.

Eszter: I think it was right place, right time because I was living in Cresta Butte, like I'd moved there via ski bum and to race bikes, and the year after that, the year that I like won all the stuff. Then the following year was when I moved to Cresta Butte and I think like. Maybe I was trying to be too serious or like living at 9,000 feet, I wasn't recovering as well.

Like if you wanna like, think about the science of what actually went wrong. I just don't think like my body [01:02:00] adapted well to living in high altitude and still trying to do this sort of same, not, I don't wanna call it training load, but like same play load of like

Karey: Yeah.

Eszter: out and playing as much as I did. It's like I didn't have like a super successful race season. I was sort of like, eh, eh. And uh, Crested Butte at the time was sort of the home of where all the people who were racing the Colorado Trail lived, like Ethan Dessan and hee and

Karey: Yeah.

Eszter: um, yeah, there were just a whole bunch of people who'd done the race at the time.

Like that era, like 20 10, 29, 2009, 2010, like 50% of the field was from Cresta Butte. Gunnison, like a huge percentage of the field.

Karey: Wow.

Eszter: I was sort of surrounded by those people and they were like, well, we're gonna go do the Colorado Trail race. And I was like, Hmm. Sounds scary. And I had toured the Colorado Trail actually in 2004.

So before bike

Karey: Oh, okay.

Eszter: like really a [01:03:00] term.

Karey: Yeah.

Eszter: it with my partner at the time, and I like toured it with pans and

Karey: Wow.

Eszter: REI and like to this day, the hardest thing I've ever done. Like it took us

Karey: Yeah.

Eszter: and we took all the recommended detours, like to Lake City and around the 10 mile range.

And like,

Karey: Mm-hmm.

Eszter: I've never been so tired day after day in my life, like we and I been backpacking before, had like four pairs of underwear like, I'm gonna have clean underwear to wear at night. I knew nothing. We sent like

Karey: Yeah.

Eszter: of stuff back after the first day because

Karey: For real.

Eszter: we weren't moving like it was com It was a comically, a disastrous, like I. But we got through, we got to Durango were on a timeline. 'cause we, we had classes starting

Karey: Hmm. Mm-hmm.

Eszter: so we had 12 days to get it done and like, we got it done and like, it was super

Karey: That's crazy. Yeah.

Eszter: bike touring's cool. But like, that was really hard and like [01:04:00] didn't touch the sport again for five years, whatever it was.

Karey: Okay.

Eszter: Um, like I sort of knew what I was getting into and I was sort of being a little like, eh, like do I wanna do this? Do I not wanna do this? And then, uh, it was a year that Ride the Divide was released and was touring

Karey: Okay.

Eszter: not film festivals, but they were like touring around, um,

Karey: Mm-hmm.

Eszter: and showing the film.

And uh, Dion was there and we all went and had a night of it. And like, I just remember there, there's a scene in Wyoming where. Lee's just like looking at the clouds and the film crew's like, oh, it looks pretty nasty out there. And he's like, yeah, and

Karey: Yeah.

Eszter: get really big. And I was like, those are crazy eyes.

Like, I wanna do that. That's what I wanna do. And so I got super inspired and like also like I was working front desk to fishing resort and like making eight 50 an hour and like

Karey: Mm-hmm.

Eszter: sort of hating that and being like, well, it's an excuse not go to work

Karey: Yeah.

Eszter: Like, seems to be legit. [01:05:00] Um, yeah. So I showed up with just like a rack bolted onto my seat post, dry bag bolted onto that, a rain jacket strapped onto that. And then a backpack, which really just, it goes to show like, you don't need fancy stuff for bike packing.

Karey: Yeah.

Eszter: I got through the Colorado Trail with like an REI dry bag attached to like a Blackburn rack.

Karey: Right. Oh,

Eszter: and I loved it. It was like, it was a super terrible weather year. I think we had like less than

Karey: hmm.

Eszter: finishing rate and like every time that I was like stuck under a tree in a thunderstorm, I was like, well, if you go home, you have to go back to work and that would suck. like, it really was like

Karey: Oh

Eszter: the main thing keeping me going wasn't like pride of finishing a thing or like doing something hard or like, I had this big goal that I wanna achieve.

It was like I didn't wanna go back to work and I knew if I went back to work, I'd like feel [01:06:00] obligated to go back to work the next day.

Karey: yeah. That's great motivation. I love it.

Eszter: So yeah, that, that was 2010 and then I finished and like at the time I set like a new women's record,

Karey: That's awesome.

Eszter: which was like wild that I could do

Karey: Yeah.

Eszter: That, that's when I got the coach. That was when I was like, oh, but I bet I

Karey: Okay.

Eszter: this faster and

Karey: Okay.

Eszter: been like properly coached and like whatever. And so yeah, went back the next year and I think I did, I think I did like the stage coach 400 that year

Karey: Hmm.

Eszter: prep. Maybe

Karey: Wish that's happening this weekend. So

Eszter: coach, that's such a good race.

Karey: Good people. Yeah. Anyway, continue.

Eszter: Um, but yeah, I went back and like had my like shopping list for Buena Vista and like knew where I wanted to get to every night and like [01:07:00] everything was very and like calculated

Karey: Mm-hmm.

Eszter: I went a full 24 hours faster, like won the race.

I

Karey: Geez.

Eszter: like fifth overall, or seventh overall. Like

Karey: Yeah.

Eszter: quick and like that was a record that like no one came close to for a very, very long time. Like

Karey: Y Yeah. Yeah.

Eszter: Um. But it wasn't joyful.

Karey: Okay.

Eszter: Like for me it was like, there wasn't like that sense of what's around the next corner, what's about to happen?

It was

Karey: Mm.

Eszter: I was so well prepared and like things went wrong, but like nothing major went wrong. Like there wasn't the sense of exploration. 'cause I'd seen the whole trail and there wasn't a sense of like, I need to figure these problems out because I have no idea what I'm doing.

Karey: Mm-hmm.

Eszter: And so, yeah, like I went fast, but there wasn't like that. I don't like, I don't even know what the emotion was, but like it, yeah, I guess [01:08:00] joy, maybe

Karey: Yeah.

Eszter: word for it. I don't know,

Karey: Yeah.

Eszter: like that's the only bike packing grace that I ever did twice because I was like, I

Karey: Oh, okay.

Eszter: to have that happen again.

Karey: Yeah, so there's like, you know, you have the like. Uh, you have the why, not the why, but you have the, the exploration of, or the question of how much can I do? But that did not outweigh, like there wasn't as much joy in that, like wondering or, you know, the reasoning for that, you know what I mean?

Like your, your reasoning for being out there, your why is, is to explore, to like really find out about your environment versus, and like the experience versus just like, okay, what, what can my body really do? What can I, you know, that's always great. That's, you know, and sometimes that drives a lot of us. I mean, that drives somebody to go out and do the hard thing is just that, you know what I mean?

Can I do this? Can I do this as fast as I can? And there's nothing wrong with that. But then, you know, it sounds like you, or you know, your reasoning for [01:09:00] being out there was something different than that. And I think that's really good to recognize. You don't have to be that person that does it.

Eszter: yeah, like there's the people who really. Like the people on the other end of the spectrum from me who will do the same race 3, 4, 5, 6, 7

Karey: Yeah,

Eszter: they get their from learning each time and doing it better each time.

Karey: yeah,

Eszter: Versus I think I am like, cool, that was like 80% good.

Like,

And

Karey: yeah,

Eszter: okay, um, the next thing I can learn? Like what's the next thing I can figure out?

Getting those last few percentage points of speed and efficiency and whatnot

Karey: Mm-hmm.

Eszter: that has never drawn me into

Karey: Totally. Yeah, totally. I am, I'm in your basket as well. Like I, in my mind, there's so many things to discover and like to experience that something has to be pretty darn amazing or like, I feel like [01:10:00] I didn't get enough of that in my first time through to, to do it again. Um, for sure. Yeah. There's just so much out there, so little time.

Eszter: Exactly.

Karey: Oh my gosh. So then, so then when was the last time you raced?

Eszter: So let's see. So I did the CTR twice,

Karey: Okay.

Eszter: and then in 2012 I did tour divide

Karey: Yeah.

Eszter: and like I did some smaller races in there too. So 2012 did tour divide and then got super sick after that. Like I

Karey: Hm mm

Eszter: gave myself some sort of water poisoning from drinking out of a jug of water that had like, probably some sort of fertilizer in it.

Karey: mm No.

Eszter: accidentally. Oops.

Karey: Yeah.

Eszter: but yeah, it got super sick. Um, or maybe it was Giardia, who knows. Um,

Karey: no. Yeah.

Eszter: for like a month after tour divide.

And then, [01:11:00] as was the habit for a lot of women post tour divide that got divorced that fall. Um, there is like a, there is, there is a trend that in the early years of

Karey: Oh no.

Eszter: of it, ending in divorce.

Karey: Yeah.

Eszter: which is fine. Like he and I are still friends and it's great. Um, but yeah, so it got divorced, moved back, raced the Iditarod 350,

Karey: Oh, cool.

Eszter: spring

Karey: I didn't realize you'd done that.

Eszter: and then turned around, um, had started dating the race director of the Arizona Trail, Scott Morris.

Karey: Oh,

Eszter: And

Karey: okay.

Eszter: on like new relationship energy, like three weeks after Iditarod went and raced there, Arizona Trail race 300. Um, and I think that was probably like the most joyful grace of my

Karey: Oh, cool.

Eszter: like buzzing on new relationship energy and like in the desert, in the springtime. Like

Karey: Yeah.

Eszter: was fit, I was healthy. It was great. Um, [01:12:00] but yeah, that was actually my last bike packing Grace. 'cause after that, um, things went downhill pretty quick physically for me.

Karey: Oh no.

Eszter: spring of 2013 was my last bike packing race,

Karey: Wow.

Eszter: which is like 12 years ago now.

Karey: Yeah. Isn't that crazy to think like how fast time goes by? Oh my gosh. So you've done a lot. I mean, that sounds like an amazing racing career. Like it sounds like you got a lot in and, um, on the bike and got to explore a lot of things and did like the major, you know, you hit the major races on, on the calendar and, and that kind of thing.

Um, and even still to this day, like those are the major ones, you know, even with all, there's so many other to add to it, but I mean, you hit all the ones on the head. Um. So after you stopped racing and you mentioned a little bit of like, you know, the, the emotional facet of racing and, um, and that kind of takes its toll.

And, um, and I told you here on that front, I [01:13:00] stopped racing enduros for that reason. Um, for, I mean, whatever your reasons are. But you know, like for me it was like the, um, I pushed myself too much and then, um, the whole ego about where I thought I should be versus results and things like that was like not healthy at all.

Um, so I had to take, take a step back and I, you know, at some point I just said no more. Um, and I've raised bike packing races since then, but that's, but I pretty much stopped racing bikes, at least altogether. Um, running for me is a little bit different because I don't have an ego about it. Um, that's more of like a, seeing what I can do kind of a thing.

Um, but anyway, the bike racing, definitely. Um, you know, I, I. I walked away from it because of, you know, that whole emotional kind of safety for myself or whatever. But, so, so like, after you, um, decided not to race anymore or life decided for you, [01:14:00] um, what kind of things were you doing? 'cause obviously you were like, okay, I still, I'm the kind of person who likes to be doing the things and you're, you know, outside doing the things.

Like, what else have you gotten yourself into since then?

Eszter: I mean, I, I full on had the crisis of like, if I'm not a bike racer, what am

Karey: yeah. Yeah. That's important. I mean to,

Eszter: anyone to think that like that transition was smooth. 'cause that

Was not smooth

Karey: Yeah.

Eszter: health issues and injury that

Karey: Mm-hmm. Mm. Mm-hmm.

Eszter: And so it was sort of against my will, at,

Karey: Oh, sure.

Eszter: I finished Arizona a trail race and was like, okay, well now I'm gonna go do this and I'm gonna go do this.

And I still had goals and then like

Karey: Oh.

Eszter: up my knee for the summer and then my. I had like a weird metabolic shutdown, probably trying to do the paleo diet to an extreme to, to drop weight. Um, and my body didn't react well and

Karey: Okay.

Eszter: a [01:15:00] moment where like, if I wanna keep playing in the mountains and if I wanna

Karey: Sorry.

Eszter: bikes and doing these things until, until the day I die, like I need to seriously reconsider what I'm doing to my body

Do the summer of sitting on the couch and then super sick and sitting on the couch even more because like I didn't have the energy to stand up.

Karey: Oh no.

Eszter: Um,

Karey: Now did you work with a doctor or a, like a new, a dietician through all that? Or did you just kind of like self remedy and

Eszter: it

Karey: rest?

Eszter: worked, I worked with a doctor because I guess that was like the paleo craze years where

Paleo diet

Karey: Oh yeah.

Eszter: and I was trying to do that. And so like I'd hurt my knee after the Arizona trail race.

Karey: Mm-hmm.

Eszter: they like couldn't walk for two months,

Karey: Geez.

Eszter: a, uh, ticket to Leadville 100 and like, this is like saddest part of my whole bike racing career because like the Leadville 100 is like the antithesis of what I think a mountain bike race should be.

Karey: Mm-hmm.[01:16:00] 

Eszter: It's a circus. Like I understand its place in bike racing, but it's a circus and it's

Karey: Yeah.

Eszter: everything I hate about bike racing and everything. I hated about bike racing, but it's like

Karey: Mm-hmm.

Eszter: when you're an endurance cyclist, everyone's like, oh, have you raced Leadville at 100?

Karey: Mm-hmm.

Eszter: people know

Karey: Mm-hmm.

Eszter: I just wanted to be like, yes, I raced it. And so like I'd gotten myself a ticket through a qualifying grace and for that summer and then like had hurt my knee after the A ZT and I was like, oh, well maybe I'm not gonna come back for it. But like, like it was like starting to come back, but I was like, well, you need to be light in order to do well at

Karey: Mm.

Eszter: it's like this whole, like I hadn't quite worked out that like strong is faster than skinny.

Karey: Yeah.

Eszter: so I was trying to drop weight by like not eating carbs and eating a lot of protein. And a byproduct of this is my theory of what happened is the byproduct of eating animal protein is this, I guess the [01:17:00] protein, it's called homocysteine. And you can test for it in your blood,

Karey: Mm-hmm.

Eszter: either folic acid to folate or folate to folic acid, whichever one metabolism uses. Um, and I basically like overloaded my body with this homocysteine stuff and it basically shut my metabolism down.

Karey: Oh, geez.

Eszter: Which like, I went like, I raced Leadville like five minutes and I was like, this is not But I was like, you have a hundred miles to work your, work your stuff out, Esther. Like, keep riding. Never worked my stuff out. Like it was an awful hundred miles of my life.

Karey: okay.

Eszter: I've never been that miserable on a bike to this

Karey: Mm-hmm.

Eszter: Um, but finished and then like couldn't get outta bed, like literally couldn't get outta bed for weeks and finally went to a doctor and they did a blood panel. And they're like, well, because I thought like maybe my thyroid had shut down because I was like

Karey: Mm-hmm.

Eszter: early thirties at the time. And I guess like a lot of endurance athlete women, like thyroids give up

Karey: Yep. Yep.

Eszter: Like I was [01:18:00] losing my hair and I was tired and like all the symptoms of thyroid.

Karey: Yeah.

Eszter: And so when, and saw a doctor and they're like, well, your thyroid's fine, but we like your homocysteine levels, like indicate you're about to have a heart attack or stroke.

Karey: Oh my God.

Eszter: And I was like, okay. Like there's no heart disease in my family. Like there's no reason why I should be about to have a heart attack or stroke. And so they went digging and they, well, they were like, well, we'll give you B vitamins because if you overdose on B vitamins, it basically like forces a chemical reaction to like clear your system

Karey: Hmm.

Eszter: And like within 48 hours I was back on the bike and feeling great. Um, and I don't think I was about to have a heart attack or stroke. I just

Karey: Sure.

Eszter: my body had built this stuff up from trying to eat so much protein to drop weight.

Karey: Mm-hmm.

Eszter: like, yeah, just shut my entire metabolic system down,

Karey: Wow,

Eszter: which is like, of course leave it to me.

Like, anything worth doing is worth overdoing. Like really backfired on me on that one.

Karey: I hear you [01:19:00] there.

Oh,

Eszter: But yeah, that's sort of like I've been injured and then that happened and just like the desire to get back into racing just never came back

Karey: yeah.

Eszter: And so, yeah, went through that post racer transition of like, well now what?

Karey: Yep.

Eszter: Um. And so the next summer, my partner and I partner at the time toured the Continental Divide Trail,

Karey: Okay.

Eszter: is like the hiking version of,

I guess the Great Divide mountain bike route.

So it was, of it's in wilderness, but we ended up riding like some odd percent of it is open to bikes now outside of

Karey: Yeah.

Eszter: a huge chunk of it. It was four months on the bike, months touring. Like it was a really, really cool trip. And I was like, okay, like I can be a bike tourer a bike packer or whatever,

Karey: Yeah.

Eszter: and not race.

And I could be pretty happy with this, except then after four months on the bike, like I was totally like burnt out on bikes. So I [01:20:00] picked up running

Karey: Cool.

Eszter: the rest is a little bit history, I guess in terms of like maybe I'm more of a runner these days than

Karey: Yeah.

Eszter: a biker.

Karey: Yeah.

Eszter: yeah, like yeah, for sure.

Karey: So, I mean, let's talk about that because you know, I have recently found running as well. Um, just like last year, I never ever thought I would be a runner. Like the only reason I ran was, well, in high school it was like ball sports, you know, like I played soccer and basketball and stuff. But that I was, I would always say the only reason I'm gonna run is if I'm chasing after a ball, you know, like, or like defense defending with a ball, you know, something to do with ball sports.

Like, I, I hated running for conditioning, um, you know, dry land practice for skiing. Like, I, you know, I hated it. But then, , I have a friend who's an ultra runner and she was coming back from having a baby and wanted a kind of an accountability, a buddy, and was like, Hey, do you wanna do this half mar a trail half marathon with me?

And. [01:21:00] So I was like, I sure why not? Just like, and I trained for it and oh my gosh, I'm like hooked. Like I don't know what has come over me in my old age, in my older age. But anyways. So talk to me about this running business that you've been doing.

Eszter: Yeah, like I, it definitely started as like, I don't ever want to see a bike again.

Karey: Yeah.

Eszter: I was just, so, the CDT trip was hard. Like it was a lot of hike, a bike, it was a lot of

Karey: Yeah. That's a tough trail.

Eszter: route stuff, and like, it was just, it was hard and it was a lot of time on a bike. And so like, yeah, just picked up running, just doing like three miles in the trails in the backyard in Tucson.

Like, like trying not to be the idiot runner or the idiot cyclist who picks up running and immediately is injured. Like, of course that

Karey: Oh yes. Yeah.

Eszter: was trying not to be that person. like, I like to say like cycling and cycling, reward, [01:22:00] stupidity, but running definitely, um, doesn't in the same

Karey: Yeah.

Eszter: Um, so yeah, picked up running and I definitely wanted it to not be a competitive thing. Like I didn't want to deal with like, I. How thin do I have to be for running? Or like, how should I eat this donut? Should I drink the beer? Should I do these intervals? Should I train? Like, should I taper, should I not go on this fun or run with a person?

Like I just, I didn't want that for the sport. And so I was like, I'm just, I'm not gonna race. I'm not gonna do anything competitive. Like running is purely, we're going out, we're making some fitnesses and

Karey: Yeah.

Eszter: see some cool places.

Karey: Yeah.

Eszter: Um, and then yeah, like as, as things do, like, it just developed, like started running longer, longer distances and like getting more and more into the mountains and like, didn't really have any running friends.

Karey: Hmm.

Eszter: it's like I didn't know how to break into sort of like the running community. 'cause like racing is such a good [01:23:00] way meet people and like, it's sort of how I met a lot of my mountain bike friends at the time. It was like through racing. And so I was like, I was doing a lot of solo runs, like in the mountains and, um. legit accidentally got signed up for the Ourey 50 like the Tuesday before the race, like it was a

Karey: How did,

Eszter: um,

Karey: how did you do that Accidentally?

Eszter: at the time I, I was dating Scott Morris who runs track Leaders

Karey: Mm-hmm.

Eszter: they were gonna track the Ourey and we were in salida at the time, just camping in the trailer and he was like, oh, we're tracking the Ourey 5,800 this weekend.

And I'd look on the website and I was like, oh, that's pretty cool. And like read all the, like you have to qualify for it. And I was like, oh, there's like all these qualifying races. I don't have a qualifier for it, but

Karey: Yeah.

Eszter: maybe next year, like it looks, looks cool. And so like Unbe, this was Tuesday, race was starting that [01:24:00] Unbeknownst to me, he'd emailed Matthew Lee, his business partner, was like, Hey, like, do you know if this race director's like a super stickler about

Karey: Yeah.

Eszter: the qualifying races, like Esther's sort of interested like. What do you think? so Matthew then emailed the race director and was like, I don't know what he said, but like, they vaguely she's not gonna die out there.

Like, she'll be fine.

Karey: Yeah.

Eszter: And so then like, that was unbeknownst to me. And so the next morning I wake up and there's an email in my inbox from the race director being like, we're super psyched to have you come race. We can't wait to meet you. Here's a comp code. Um, ahead and

Karey: Oh my God.

Eszter: And I was like, well, like they're comping my entry. I can't, like, I can't really say no.

Karey: Oh my God.

Eszter: so like, I drove to Salida that afternoon and like bought myself a pair of my first pair of trekking poles and was like, okay, I guess we're gonna learn how to use poles now.

Karey: I love it.

Eszter: and yeah, like four days later, like showed up to, and like, had no idea what I was doing, but I was like, well, [01:25:00] the hills are so steep that

Karey: That is a tough course. Yeah.

Eszter: and you try not to fall down.

And I, I loved it. Like I ended up like, it's like one of those things, like you have these pivotal. Changes in your life that you don't really realize that like your life gets set on a new course.

Karey: Mm.

Eszter: Like on something something so small of like me saying like, Hey, I wonder

Karey: I wonder.

Eszter: Ourey looks cool. And then it

Karey: Mm-hmm.

Eszter: into motion, like this series of events that like, really shaped my life.

'cause it's like I ended up meeting, like my entire running community now is like,

Karey: Oh,

Eszter: based off of that one weekend

Karey: that's so cool.

Eszter: from that one event.

Karey: Yeah.

Eszter: so like I met a bunch of people on them, like through them, met a bunch of people and like sort of like learned, learned how to like properly mount and run from those people.

And like, it's given me a skewed view of what ultra running is. 'cause like the Ourey 50 course is not your typical 50

Karey: Correct.

Eszter: it's reasonably burly[01:26:00] 

Karey: I like that description of it. Reasonably burly. Oh my gosh.

Eszter: But yeah, like that's sort of like how I got into the ultra scene. I'm like, I raced a couple more times, but like the racing has never really caught my attention. Like it's been

Being in the mountains with friends and going

Karey: Yeah.

Eszter: and

Karey: That's cool.

Eszter: exploring.

Karey: Yeah, yeah. When you are traveling around, you're, do you have your bike with you as well, or is it like only on certain times or you're just fully mobile with your bike?

Eszter: I, I have two bikes in my van.

Karey: Okay. Yeah,

Eszter: Yeah. No, I

Karey: that's great. Good. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, I was just wondering if like, it's like almost, 'cause sometimes the running part of it is, is easier than like having to deal with a bike.

Um, you know, even if you do have your bikes with you obviously running, you could put on a pair of shoes and get your water if you need it and go on. You know what I mean? It's kind of like, I think that's part of the pull [01:27:00] for me, um, was like, I was so tired of just. Like dealing with like, all the repairs for my bike and like making sure, especially in Arizona, you know, it's, it's so hard.

The, the terrain is so hard on your, on your gear. Um, but like, you know, a, a good pair of running shoes is way less expensive than all the parts and the service and all that stuff that I have to do for my bike. So actually having like a year of not riding that much last year and like really running a lot was so great and, and I ended up being the stupid cyclist that got injured while running.

And uh, so I've been dealing with that. So I've been riding more 'cause I can ride without, um, exacerbating my injury. I've already spent so much money on my bike, Justin, like, and I'm like, I did not miss this. Like, let's just go run again.

Eszter: No, like I feel the same way. Like I pulled my bikes outta my van earlier today and was like, oh yeah, this one

Karey: Ugh.

Eszter: a leaking tire. This one, the

Karey: Yeah.

Eszter: bleeding. Like, oh dear, here we go. [01:28:00] But yeah, like I think for me, it's like you were talking about earlier that like bikes have ego attached to them

Karey: Mm.

Eszter: never gonna be as good of a bike rider as I was

Karey: Yeah.

Eszter: I'm just not.

And like I know what it's like to ride effortlessly and I know what it's like to ride technical stuff and I know what it's like to rail downhill

Karey: Mm-hmm.

Eszter: I'm never going to have that again. Like I can still ride, I still like riding,

Karey: Yeah.

Eszter: I'm never gonna have that high level again versus like running, it's still. It feels like there's still stuff to figure out for me. Like it's a

Karey: Yeah.

Eszter: but like if you start like adding in scrambling or you start adding in like overnight stuff or you start adding in, like, like it all still feels really new and like I'm not,

Karey: Yeah.

Eszter: I, I'm good at going long distances and I can suffer really well, but like the

Karey: Mm-hmm.

Eszter: running, like I've run a 7 28 mile, like that's the fastest mile I've ever run.

And that was like [01:29:00] downhill, like

Really hard. It's like I'm

Karey: Yeah.

Eszter: fast in the traditional sense of like what makes a fast runner. And I think that sort of gives me the freedom to just like, like I'm not gonna be an Olympic runner ever.

I can just go play like there's no pressure to like

Karey: Mm-hmm.

Eszter: meet any expectations besides to just go have fun.

Karey: I love it. I, and that's an amazing place to be in, I think, especially as an adult, like as a 40 something year old adult, like having something that lends, like fills that part of your soul or your, whatever your feels, I think is, is awesome. It's so awesome to feel that, because like, I think, like we talked about when we first started is, you know, you know.

There's, there's an amount of like, oh, I have to be good at what I'm doing all the time and I have to always be the best and I have to [01:30:00] know exactly what I'm doing and, and to feel like you don't at all. Like, that's how I feel with running is I'm just like, what am I doing out here? And I've made stupid mistakes and I've also made some super awesome breakthroughs and, and, uh, you know, um, discoveries about myself and my body and the trails and, and all that.

And it's, I mean, it's kind of magic out there and I love it. It's, it's a much needed break, at least for me, from, from the bike for sure.

Eszter: Yeah, I love it. Like I, I'm never gonna be the person who's like, like, I've never owned a pair of road shoes. I'm never

Karey: Yeah.

Eszter: go try to run a fast 5K or Fast 10 k or something like that.

Realistically not line up for any other races, but

Karey: Yeah.

Eszter: I don't know,

Karey: Except for maybe accidentally, but I just love it and I love that it was that race. Like it's not like, oh my God, of all the [01:31:00] races.

Eszter: I mean, it makes like, it's like now I, like I work for Yuri Ultras and like they're my favorite races in the world. And like, I absolutely

Karey: Yeah,

Eszter: they stand for. And

Karey: sure.

Eszter: I, I'm, I, I really do think like had. signed up for like a normal 50 K quote unquote normal 50 K, like

Karey: Mm-hmm.

Eszter: 50 K. I probably would've been like, is dumb. Like what? Like what? What's the point? Like

Karey: Uhhuh.

Eszter: it's not self-supported. Like it's not, I don't know, like I don't think it would've appealed to me. But like, because Ourey is Ourey, which is like,

Karey: Yeah.

Eszter: it's a hiking race and the weather's atrocious always and it's rocky and you down and Yeah, it's just,

Karey: It's an adventure.

Eszter: are very much like, it's like the black sheep of

Early years it was like the race director would like consistently lock his keys in the U-Haul.

And like one year he missed the start 'cause he got lost, like installing a [01:32:00] radio repeater on a mountain the night before,

Karey: my God.

Eszter: It's just, it's, it's pure chaos and I love it. And I

Karey: Yeah.

Eszter: people so much. And like in a world of racing that's like structured and corporate and like expos and whatever, it's like we have two cones in a field as our

Karey: Yeah.

Eszter: Like I love, I just love what it

Karey: I love it.

Eszter: people and

Feel very lucky that like my life found me at that weekend in 2016.

Karey: Yeah, again, things happen for a reason and you just get placed where your energies lie or, you know, go towards, so. So, I mean, we've talked about so much stuff, but let's, let's wrap up with a couple things. Um, what I'm curious, like, do you have, you know, you said as far as what it looks like now, um, maybe, maybe not, never, maybe don't say never races anymore, whether it's running or riding, but, um, like do you have anything in your [01:33:00] near future like adventures planned or you, you said you just got back from New Zealand?

Correct.

Eszter: Yeah. Like two days ago, three days ago,

Karey: Okay, so that's, that's a part of your adventure. So now that you're back in the States for. Um, are you gonna be here for like six months? Is that, or like through the summer, or, or as far as your planning? Yeah. Do you have any specific things planned or are you just kind of going with the, the flow?

Eszter: And I've got a lot of work stuff planned.

Karey: Hmm.

Eszter: Um, a lot of like photo stuff on weekends for events and race coverage stuff. And I've got a couple like trips in the desert plan, like we're gonna try to redo a packrafting trip in Canyonlands that

Karey: Oh, nice.

Eszter: We didn't fail out, we feet fall apart, um,

Karey: Oh,

Eszter: abrasion, um,

Karey: okay.

Eszter: year.

So we're gonna go back and try that again. Um, I'd love to like, out on the Sierra Nevada higher route. I'd love to. [01:34:00] Yeah. I don't know. There's like, yeah, there's a, yeah, a lot of like misty stuff that

Karey: Yeah.

Eszter: like, I, I generally don't write stuff down and like, I don't have big plans, but like, whatever, like happens to float to the top of the mental pile.

Like I end up making happen

Karey: Totally.

Eszter: like

Karey: Yeah.

Eszter: back. Like I have like month of like pretty solid work and then it sort of feels like,

Karey: Nice.

Eszter: let's see what floats to the top

Karey: Yeah, I love it. I love it because I mean, yeah, I would say I'm a little bit the same way. I'm a little bit of a planner, but also like, yeah, I just, I'm a very much a thinker. I don't like, I don't, when I'm planning, I write a lot of stuff down. Like I, you know, I, I'm a spreadsheet maker. I love my spreadsheets, but then it usually all goes out the window anyway.

But as far as like energies and like. What I am like working towards, I just, you [01:35:00] know, I find the same thing where I just like think about something and I'm like, okay, this is, this is going in this direction and I, it just happens, you know, like, I don't know. I've always been that way and sometimes it takes me a little bit longer to get to a certain place, but I know I eventually get there in how I'm supposed to get there.

So I love it. It's all about the getting there is also part of the adventure. I think so, yeah. That's super awesome. And then are you gonna be stationed at around your parents or in your parents in Colorado then? Or are you going elsewhere 

Eszter: I'm boosting the Moab tomorrow, hopefully.

Karey: oh my gosh. Very nice.

Eszter: I mean, my parents are amazing, but,

Karey: Yes.

Eszter: Boulder

Karey: it's also your parents? Yes.

Eszter: good food, and there's some good trail running here,

Karey: Mm-hmm.

Eszter: Boulder,

Karey: Yep.

Eszter: so I need

Karey: Very nice. Yeah.

Eszter: But yeah, no, I'll be, I'll be in the desert, like Moab

Karey: Cool.

Eszter: for the next two months.

And

Karey: Oh, cool.

Eszter: yeah, then like I always [01:36:00] vortex out in Silverton

Karey: Yeah. Okay.

Eszter: So

Karey: Yeah.

Eszter: not working, that's generally where I end up in my van.

Karey: Nice. Oh, it's beautiful out there. Yeah,

Eszter: logistically an easy place to go. And it's like crawling with runners and mountain bikers who are always keen, like.

Karey: totally.

Eszter: So

Karey: Yeah, for sure. That's cool. So we are actually, I'm going to Moab, on the 24th and the 25th. We're gonna do, um, my partner and my good friend who lives in, uh, Portland, and then another friend of ours down here are doing the white Rim in a day on our bikes.

So that's gonna be a big adventure. So we've, we've bike packed it before, just in two days. Um, so we're gonna do the full, the full shebang. So that'll be a good adventure,

Eszter: that'll be

Karey: but we'll be, we'll, I think we'll have, yeah, I mean, it's, it is just amazing and hoping for some solid weather and, you know, all that stuff.

Um, but there's gonna be a day when we're, um. We're just hanging out, so I might hit you up and we [01:37:00] might be able to grab a coffee or something if you're around or

Eszter: Oh,

Karey: something like that. So yeah, I'll let you know. So cool. Very nice. Yeah, I'm excited to go up to Moab. We usually, we usually end up there like a couple times a year.

I just, I just love it, like something about that place more than, I think Sedona for me or Flagstaff or anywhere up north. I just, yeah, it's, it's a really beautiful place, so, yeah. Well, that's super awesome.

Eszter: oh, if someone held a gun to my head right now and said, you have to pick a place to live, like it would be

Karey: Yeah.

Eszter: Like,

Karey: that's awesome.

Eszter: it's like, yeah, that's, that's just so good.

Karey: Yeah, it totally is. Ugh. Oh, now I'm very excited to go. I, . So I always ask, , well we've talked about women power and women doing things and, and all that stuff, and that's a lot of what this podcast is about. But, um, if you have like three pieces of advice or tips or anything like that for the ladies out there who [01:38:00] are either adventure, curious or looking to push themselves and might have either just starting or are nervous or wanna learn more, like what are some tips that you would give?

Eszter: Mm. I guess like the philosophical tip would be don't wait until you're not scared,

Karey: Hmm.

Eszter: because you're never gonna be not scared to start something

Karey: Yeah.

Eszter: trying to like do all the prep or all the research or whatever until you feel not scared, um, is yeah, just, just go do it. Um, find a mentor. Like,

Karey: Hmm.

Eszter: as I've gotten older, like I've realized how many really great mentors I've had in my life who've either like actively invited me into spaces to be like, Hey, let me show you how to do this. Um. Or like, just like indirectly, like provided guidance. like if you're trying to learn something new, like find someone [01:39:00] who knows how they do, they do it. And I think like we're intimidated and like, as a society, we've sort of become hesitant to approach people to be like, Hey, I'm really curious to know how to do this.

Like, could you show me? But what I've found, and like when people approach me being like, Hey, I wanna learn how to bike pack, I'm always like, well, let's, let's go. Like, I, I love that. like, when people wanna go running in the mountains, I'm like, well, I'm scared. I'm like, well, let's, go.

Karey: do it.

Eszter: most of us want to pass on our knowledge and we wanna pass on the things we've learned

Karey: Mm-hmm.

Eszter: and yeah, like don't be intimidated to like, just reach out to people and be like, Hey, I wanna learn this.

Like, you know how to do this. Like, can we, can you help?

Karey: I love it.

Eszter: mentors I think is really important.

Karey: Love it.

Eszter: Um, I. What else? I don't know. Just,

Karey: I mean, those are both really good. I love it.

Eszter: Just go,[01:40:00] 

Karey: We can, we could do too. Just go do it and ask how to do it

Eszter: Yeah.

Karey: if you want.

Eszter: Ask,

Karey: Yes,

Eszter: later.

Karey: yes, exactly. Oh, I love that.

Eszter: I mean, like, that philosophy has gotten me into trouble a handful of times, but like most of the time, like it works out okay.

Karey: Yeah, exactly. Oh my gosh. Well, thank you so much Esther. Who, what, um, for people who wanna follow you or see your beautiful photography and stuff like that, where can people find out about you?

Eszter: Um, I'm on Instagram and Facebook.

Karey: Perfect. Yeah.

Eszter: my

Karey: What's your Instagram?

Eszter: like an easy one to, it's

Karey: I'll put it in the show notes. Yeah.

Eszter: it in the

Karey: Oh, say it again.

Eszter: Wom and demple is to, its British slang, old British slang is to stride purposefully towards no particular destination, which I feel like is sort of like what I do. Like I don't know where I'm going or where I'll end up, [01:41:00] like I'm gonna go there with purpose.

Karey: Yeah, I love it.

Eszter: it makes

Karey: That's very fitting.

Eszter: handle to tell people,

Karey: Totally. Well, yeah, we will put that link in the show notes. So, awesome. Well, thank you so much for taking the time tonight and chatting. It's been such a pleasure. I've learned a lot about you and a lot about joy and being bold and the whole, the whole bit tonight. So thank you again.

Eszter: thanks for having me. 

Karey: All right, and with that signing out.