The Art of The Discomfort Zone with Meaghan Hackinen: Atlas Mountain Race

Karey, alongside guest Co-hosts Aliza and Deann sit down and chat with ultra-endurance bike racer and author, Meghan Hackenin for an episode full of adventurous stories about the Atlas Mountain Race, Meghan's travels in Morocco, and what it means to be a thoughtful, intentional author.  

We cover:

• What it took to place 2nd in the recent 2025 Atlas Mountain Race
• Tips for traveling to foreign countries as a woman
• Pushing your comfort limits both mentally and physcally
• What it means to put yourself out there in your writing
• Setting records and chasing new ones
• Being kind to yourself
• Finding joy in the unknown

Find out more about Meghan and the Atlas mountain race here:

Meaghan Hackenin IG

Meaghan LinkTree

Meaghan Website

Atlas Mountain Race

Transcript

The art of the "Discomfort" Zone with Meaghan Hackinen

Karey: [00:00:00] All right. Welcome to the Art of Type two fun podcast. I'm Karey, your host, and we've got a couple other people here joining us today. Um, but most importantly, we have Megan Hacken, who is, um, ultra cycling guru extraordinaire, just finished the Atlas Mountain race. Um, but we also have, and we'll have her introduce herself in just a minute.

Um, but we also have some guest co-hosts tonight, um, folks that you've heard from before, um, both Aliza and Deanne. So y'all say hi.

Deann: Hi,

Karey: Maybe a little, 

Karey: a little snippet of yourself or, yeah,

Deann: uh, I'm Deanne Garcia. I, uh, ride bikes a lot with Karey and Aliza.

Karey: Awesome. And you're 

Aliza: I type two ambassador here for duty.

Karey: [00:01:00] Perfect. Awesome. Um, so then, um, Megan, let's see. You are, like I said, you're a cyclist. You've been the winner of the, uh, tour Divide Mountain Bike Race, the 2024, 

Meaghan: That's right. Yeah.

Karey: Is that

Meaghan: One year ago.

Karey: Yes. The, oh my gosh, it's, it's not that long ago. Um, and recently you finished, uh, second correct, in the Atlas Mountain race, which is another big one.

You've also done, um, other races, the TransAm, uh, world 24 Hour TT Champion.

Meaghan: That's right. Twice. Twice. I had the record until like last year. Yeah. I, uh, I lost it last year, but that's okay. Records are made to be broken. I'll have to go back.

Karey: you set the bar high and then everybody goes after it. Um, but yeah. So let's welcome. We're so excited to have you here tonight. Um, tell us a little bit about yourself.

Meaghan: sure. Um, I live in Kelowna, BC Canada. Um, I've been a, I guess a lifelong athlete. I feel like I [00:02:00] always need to be doing a sport or outside and moving, preferably all of the above, I guess. Um, I enjoy pushing my limits. I enjoy going those places where things getting comfortable. and I also love the process of training.

I love feeling the progression. I enjoy, you know, those gym sessions, those indoor training sessions, this strategy, all all of that stuff that goes into the act of competing. I think that sports and outdoor recreation, um, bring out a different side of me and, and I. I think that's the better side of me, and I feel like I'm a more fully realized version of myself, and I love getting to know people through recreation, whether that's bike touring or training or, you know, the people I, um, connect with at talks and stuff.

I think it's a, it's just a great way to, to connect with other humans and kind of like form those bonds. I've been bike touring since, uh, 2009 and I turned to competitive cycling in 2017. So I guess I've been [00:03:00] doing this for, for a while. Uh, I've also really, um, loved sports like snowboarding, basketball and, uh, as an adult roller derby. So I guess that's me in a nutshell.

Deann: Oh,

Karey: That's awesome.

Deann: roller derby.

Karey: the next podcast that we do.

Meaghan: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I've played quite a bit actually in the states, in the west coast. I, uh, skidded in Vancouver, BC so we'd go down and do the bank track, I think in, in Bellingham. And I've, uh, skidded against Rat City in Seattle, and I can't remember the Portland team, but they

Aliza: The roll city rollers, I think, right?

Meaghan: those,

Aliza: Yeah.

Meaghan: us.

So, yeah. And um, there's a tournament in Eugene every year called, um, the Big O and I've been there a few times,

so yeah.

Karey: nice. 

Deann: hilarious. I, I lived in Seattle for a year, like way back, like 15 years, 20, 20 years ago, and I used to go see the Rat City Roller girls all the time.

Meaghan: awesome. Awesome. They have a great community up there of, uh, of skating.

Karey: that's so [00:04:00] rad. Little known facts about Megan. Um, and then, let's see, you are also a writer, so you're not a, just a writer of bikes, but you are a writer of things and stories, and you've written now your most recent one is shifting gears and that's about the Trans Am, 

Meaghan: That's right. Yeah. It takes a long time to get something published, so it takes some time to write it and then publish it. So I had the experience I wrote the book kind of in pandemic ish times, and then it was released in 2023. So it's a bit of a journey to see it out in the world.

Karey: Yeah, I mean that's an adventure in itself, I'm sure. Had you written and you've written another, is it another book or another?

Meaghan: Yeah. Um. 

Karey: you, you've written. 

Meaghan: Yeah, I guess I would call it like an adventure memoir. Um, both of them, so they're, they're both about bike tour or bike adventures. So the first one South the way is about, um, yeah, a long distance bike trip. The first I took with my sister down the Pacific Coast and we were both just graduating from university at this like, crossroads of our [00:05:00] lives. Um, not really sure what was. Gonna come next. I was a bit more of a crossroads. She was going to grad school. I didn't know what I was doing. And uh, we decided to tour the coast to just kind of, um, have an experience before we moved on. And we'd both traveled before, but it had been reliant on, um, trains or cars or hitchhiking.

And we just thought it would be so cool to move on our own steam and stamina and not rely so much on other people and, you know, discover those places in between. And I feel like so much of, um, so much of being a tourist is visiting kind of the hotspots. And we weren't so interested in that. We were curious about the small towns and the beaches and the little convenience stores where we could get ice cream. And um, and we imagine ourselves being these two like self-reliant women, you know, on the coast. But we actually relied on other people a whole lot. We stayed with folks from warm showers and couch surfing and. And, um, you know, people, people are very kind to young women on bikes, so we'd often get pies given to us and we had almost no [00:06:00] money.

So we really did rely on other folks a lot for our food and lodging and kindness and comforts. But it was, um, yeah, it was a really special trip to connect with my sister like that to, and I didn't MFA and Creative Riding in 2016, and I needed to pick a project to create a book link manuscript about, and I, I thought this was something that really stuck out in my memory, this experience.

And it was a real treat to go back to those days and, and really leave it in my memory. And, you know, the fact that I am still friends with my sister, we're still, you know, close in touch.

Karey: Even after all that? 

Meaghan: Yeah, all that. Um, so I could have conversations with her about what the trip was like, and, um, she jogged some details, just little things I forgot.

And, and there was nothing we disagreed on, but it was, it was more her filling in some of the shading that I just didn't quite remember. And,

um, yeah, and, and her saying like, oh, you have to include this detail. And I was like, okay, make sure that gets in there. But in my writing, I write about some personal themes and some family interactions that her and my mom weren't really [00:07:00] excited to see in print.

And that, uh, it didn't create a riff with us, but it was more like them, them accepting that I was telling a family stories from our lives to the public world. And this book is available on bookshelves, uh, in, um, you know, in print and ebook. It's being recorded as an audio book right now. So I think the, yeah, the. The private story is no longer being private is something that's a bit hard to come, come around to. And, and they both have. And, um, I'm, I'm glad I have such an understanding family, but I promised them afterwards that they would not be in my next book. And I much held true to my promise. My mom features in a few conversations. My sisters referenced not by name, just my sister once or twice. So, um, I will, yeah. Continue moving on to different targets.

Karey: Beware.

If you're anywhere in Megan's life, you will be featured.

Meaghan: It's the way it is.

Karey: Oh my gosh, [00:08:00] that's 

Aliza: But that's what's, that's what makes stories so good though. I mean, it's the personal, uh, yeah. Interactions that you have and your, your personal feelings that it's why story stories are so great to hear. So it's, it's a tough line, I'm sure to walk.

Karey: For 

Meaghan: it is. And I work, um, with a creative writing organization. I host, um, I host some events and I, um, I answer a lot of membership questions and I organize some online writing circles. But I think especially with nonfiction people, uh, they have a lot of like, worries about what, what it's gonna be like to tell their story.

If they're allowed to tell their story, if they're the right person to tell this story, if there might be repercussions or it might damage family relationships. And, and there's all sorts of advice out there. But I always encourage people just to think about, like, if this is your story to tell first. Like if, you know, if I'm, um, a white settler in Canada, maybe I shouldn't tell a story about, you know, an indigenous family I just met on the side of the road.

Maybe that's their story to tell and it's not really my place to, to say it. 

Karey: [00:09:00] Mm-hmm. 

Meaghan: and then, you know, I think. Thinking about what other people are, how they're going to be impacted by your work is, is important. Um, and you could, you know, consider talking to them, especially if they're a main character. I talked to my sister and my mom and told them what I was writing, what I was doing, you know, kind of the general theme.

But I, um, I didn't like paint out individual scenes until we were very close to the publication process. And, um, 

Karey: Okay. 

Meaghan: and, uh, yeah, because I, I felt like I needed that space to kind of, you know, have my own creative development. But, and they were, yeah, they were both, um, they both consented to, to being in this project, which was, which was great to have their support.

I think it gets trickier when, you know, you people aren't consenting or they don't wanna be part of it. In another book I wrote about, um, an X and we didn't split amicably, so he's the only person I've ever given like a pseudonym to, and I changed, 

Karey: Sure. 

Meaghan: um, you know, I was a little bit vague about his job and stuff, but I, I, I still felt like this. The things I wrote in that book were my stories to tell. And,

Karey: the true. 

Meaghan: um, and I avoided the really personal [00:10:00] stuff because I, I, I didn't, I didn't want him to be hurt by those things. And

the story was about a bike race across the us. You know, my relationships are only a small part of that. So I felt like I included what was necessary and um, 

Karey: yeah.

That's, I mean, that's a really, really cool way. I mean, I've never, don't know, I've never really thought about that. Like, in the way of like how consider myself a very aware person, you know what I mean? And I love it when others are aware, but just like hearing it like that of like how, really aware you do you can be and like for the people around you.

And it's so considerate and thoughtful and I think, you know, you handling it that way. And I love that you're like mentoring these other folks as well, that like, these are common concerns that any creative person might have. You know, like when I'm creating mu, you know, music itself is not with words, but like, I have the same fears of like. What does this say about me? Are they gonna, [00:11:00] you know, if I write lyrics to my music, you know, like that kind of thing, what is this gonna mean? Are my, is my family gonna approve of what I'm saying? You know, like all this But like, You know, I think as long as the intentionality of it is, is there, then that's where people are like, okay, I see what she's doing. You know, and are more accepting of whatever it is that maybe they might otherwise be offended or be like, why did you say that? Why did you, 

Meaghan: I think that you can, you know, you can still, you can still hurt people even if your intentions are good. But you need to start from a place of, of, um, I mean, I think in my writing anyways, I try and start from a place of understanding and good intentions. And I think if you're writing for vindication or revenge, like maybe that, you've be really careful then because those,

Karey: Oh,

Meaghan: are hard. Yeah. Those might get you in trouble. Um, and think, think hard about that.

Karey: So when you're, so tying this back into like the riding stuff, like when you're doing some of your big adventures, like are [00:12:00] you often thinking about how you could write about how your experiences are could shape something for you down the road?

Like, you know, your creative process or whatever? Or is it just kind of like an after effect or like

Meaghan: Yeah, I think it's like kind of a weird relationship between being in the moment and realizing like, this is important. Like, I'm gonna remember this. This is a pivotal thing because I've had a realization or I've done something really stupid and I know I'm gonna have to pay the consequences. Or I am, I'm paying for something stupid I did earlier.

Um. So sometimes there's those, those moments or just kind of realizations that that happen. And I think the realizations are the most interesting ones because I feel like that comes from maybe being in the flow state of, of doing an endurance sport for a while, and it can come, you know, in a swamp. Like it doesn't really, it's not always tied into the scenery or the, uh, yeah, what, what else is going on.

So those are the ones I really struggle to capture. And, um, you always think you're [00:13:00] gonna remember everything and you don't. So I, I, I try to make little notes or, you know, more and more doing voice memos to, to make sure I just kind of capture the, that little thing. and then afterwards I, I really try and look back on the experience and say like, what stuck out?

What are the things I remember the most? Because there's probably meaning there. Maybe I need to journal on it a bit. But, um, you know, if you really remember something strongly, there's, there's probably like a lesson or, um, just, just something to dig into some meat in there. I think. Yeah, one of the, one of the things I talk to is people ask like, how do you remember all that?

How do you put that all down? But I think a lot of us have like more memories than we can put down into encyclopedias. So it's about winnowing down what you need for the story, not so, yeah. So I, I, I would just encourage you, if you feel like you have a bad memory, you probably, you probably have a pretty good memory.

You probably have enough.

Karey: I have a horrible memory. We, okay. So I love, you know, 'cause I usually write. [00:14:00] I'm not a renowned writer by any means, but, um, I do like to write and I keep my, uh, like a blog or, you know, my website and I have some of my longer adventure stories on there. And I love it. 'cause every time, like, so Aliza is really good about taking notes and like nightly or during the day, she'll like jot down like, this happened to us.

And like, this is kind of her story of things, which I also love because, you know, I, I try to do it, but it usually lasts like two days and then I'm too tired to even like, remember to do anything. And then I'm like thinking I'm riding back and I'm like, you know, I'm. It helps me to like look at the pictures.

That's one of the things is like, you know, still, I like to take pictures so, you know, I'll look and it'll jog some things in memory, but it never fails. I'm like, Aliza, do you have your log for? And she'll like, have written down things that I, well, I also love getting her side of the story because it helps me recognize that whatever doom and gloom I was in, maybe she was like, this is the easiest hill to climb.

Or, you know, it never fails. And then also like random, you know, little, [00:15:00] little things like you're talking about that are like so funny or so on point that like just slipped my mind. But then she's written 'em down, so I, I love it. She's, that's why I always keep her around.

Deann: I

Aliza: That's why we have adventure buddies.

Deann: during Atlas, Megan, you, you made all these little voice notes that were posted to your Instagram and I really enjoyed getting to listen to those because it was like, think it's interesting sometimes when you're, when you're in, in the thick of it and you're making your thoughts are like, you know, happening in the moment and then the way you look back on it later doesn't always align. And, uh, we recorded a podcast like two weeks after we finished Big Lonely. then I, uh, listened back to it like a couple months later and I was like, what? Like there were so many things I'd either forgotten about or I totally saw in a different light 3, 3, 4 months later. 

Karey: Mm-hmm. 

Deann: and it's, it was, I really [00:16:00] enjoyed just getting to listen to those little notes that she left.

'cause it felt like emergent instead of reflective.

Meaghan: Awesome. Well, I'm glad you enjoyed them. It, it was fun to do and I think one of my challenges in Ultras is telling the story, um, like while it's happening in an engaging way, and I like, I'm not one of those people who can do like a documentary film about their like, race experience. I need to focus on like what I am doing.

Like I can barely take a selfie, you know? Um. But like I, I, you know, did the voice notes for, um, the tour divide last summer and people seemed to really love them. So I knew it was something I wanted to do again, and I thought it was something I could manage. And I'm supported by seven Mesh and they've been really amazing in helping me, like stay stylish and kitted out and dry in their rain gear.

But they also supported me on the social media side with this event. So I, um, sent the voice notes and photos to one of their teammates and they put them on social media for me, created some caption and text. It just kind of helped [00:17:00] me do that right in the moment. And, I think if I wasn't racing for like a top podium position, um, you might find time to do those things.

And I think some people can manage those. Tasks better than others, but I, I absolutely can't. And the thought of, I think too, because I do have a background in writing, I want everything to sound good and posed and put together. So if I listen to my voice memo again, I would be like, oh no, I have to redo it. You know, it would just end up being super time consuming. So the, um, the fact that I, knew that I could just give it to somebody else and they would put it online and kind of , uh, help me tell that story. And, um, you know, I'm working on a, a longer written recap and I'm able to talk about it in podcasts like this and reflectively after and, and, um, yeah, it's, it's great to be able to do that.

But telling, telling the story in the moment is really tricky. And like you said, those voice notes can be, um, yeah, I think I need to take more, maybe not even for public use, but just for, just for me to help me remember things.

Karey: Totally. [00:18:00] Writing it all down like I, or like typing it on my little phone notes, like no, just be like,

Meaghan: No.

Karey: self, remember this?

Meaghan: Well, I think there's something too, like maybe a little more therapeutic about talking to yourself or recording it because it feels like you're talking it out to someone, right? Or, you know, maybe you start wondering your sanity or where that's gone. But I do think, you know, there's probably something more therapeutic and speaking out loud than, um, typing on your phone furiously.

Karey: Seriously, Aliza, you can keep doing you though. You just keep typing away.

Aliza: I just I just 

Karey: type 

Aliza: away

Karey: It's easier for me to read afterwards.

Aliza: exactly.

Karey: Oh my gosh. Well, let's get a little bit more into Atlas then. Well, first of all, I was wondering, so you said you started racing or competitive cycling in around 2017. What made you decide to make the jump and just like try that venture?

Meaghan: I injured my knees and I'm not [00:19:00] allowed to do competitive contact sports anymore. So I was looking for another avenue and I needed a release. Like I was a grad student at the time I had wonderful, like a wonderful cohort of other writers, but they were not athletic people. And I felt like I just, I really needed to move my body in a way that I wasn't doing.

And I, uh, I was living in a different city in Saskatoon, in the prairies, and I had been bike commuting and done some, done some bigger tours by that point. I, I'd heard about, um, long distance cycling and the form of r Dene cycling and that really intrigued me . And that wasn't, um, that wasn't competitive, but it seemed like unbelievable that people would cycle like two to 600 kilometers in like a weekend and. just wanted to, to try it out and I didn't have as much time to, um, to, to tour. And I, yeah, so I wanted to kind of, yeah, explore that. And while I was getting [00:20:00] into R Dene cycling, Lil Wilcox won the TransAm bike race, and I was like, what? This could be my competitive thing that I've been searching for. and uh, yeah, so I upgraded my bike and I started training for the Trans Am, which is a coast to coast bike race from Astoria, Oregon to Yorktown, Virginia. And it's definitely not what I would recommend someone dive into, but like at the time, there weren't as many ultras and, um, I didn't know about off-road biking. I thought it was just like downhill mountain biking or road cycling. You have two options. So there weren't many road ultras. Um, and I wasn't interested in doing like, road racing.

Like I did, like a, um, like a road cycling bootcamp about riding in a pack and clipping in and stuff. And I was terrified, like I left, more scared than when I started. I was like, I'm never riding within like six feet of people again, like. So I, I was not into that style of riding and since then I've become much better and much more confident and capable and like I understand the rules of a pack, but I, I, it wasn't for me.

And it's funny because I was coming from roller derby. I'm used to being close to [00:21:00] people, but I think my skate skills are just a level up from my by handling skills and they always will be. Um. so that's kind of what pushed me to get into it. I saw, um, an amazing female role model, do something and wanted to see if I could do it myself.

And because I had touring experience and because I had, you know, always loved, um, doing sports and the process of training, I was, I was really on board to commit to this big challenge. And I, I think I really did take it seriously. I trained in the best way possible that I knew of at the time. I researched, you know, my kit, I read a lot of blogs and I really tried to come to, to Portland and then to Astoria as well, prepared as I could. But there was still a lot of stuff I didn't know. Um, I did my seat post bag up like completely wrong, and I just didn't know that it wasn't done upright. And another racer pointed it out to me like.

Karey: Oh.

Meaghan: The day before the start and um, my partner James calls me a, I was a baby bike packer then just doing silly things. I didn't like descend in the [00:22:00] drops. I basically never used the drops like I just rode on the hoods or in the aero bars because I had been riding a flat bar bike as my touring bike. And so when I, um, I didn't really descend at all on a road bike 'cause I only got one in the prairies and it's flat and there are not descents.

So the whole descending thing was new to me. Um. But it's a long race and you can figure out things as you go. And I met some great mentors doing it, who were able to take the time to share a lot of their knowledge and experience and inspiration. So, um, yeah, so I guess my initial inspiration came from Lael, but all my on course experience and inspiration came from some, uh, handful of European guys I rode with, and I think they, you know, um, they just really took a lot of time with me to, um, to help bring me up to speed.

And I got to the, the finish, a changed person and I think that's why I decided to write a book about it, because it was transformative, experience.

Karey: Oh, that's great. Yeah. I mean, it sounds like you were very open to learning, and I think that's an important part [00:23:00] of this whole progress or process is because like. You know, you could have been out there and just like, maybe people were willing to help, but then, you know, you're just like, oh, I, you know,

Meaghan: Yeah.

Karey: you always have the option of whether to take that into account.

And so I love that you took the opportunity to and grow and become into a toddler bike packer for baby back biker.

Meaghan: And,

Karey: Oh my

Meaghan: and it's been, it's been an interesting, like, navigation. 'cause sometimes there's definitely been like mansplaining things that's hard. But at the same time, I've also done like really dumb things that I, like, I, I, I would like to be corrected on. Right? So, um, yeah, there's other been other times where someone is like, you know, trying to like, adjust my light for me and I'm like, dude, like I can do that myself.

Like, please don't touch my stuff. You know what I mean? But like, yes, my light does need to be adjusted. So thank you for mentioning it. Like I can, I can take it from here.

Karey: it. I totally, and I think, I think at all it is about [00:24:00] like how a person goes about that. You know what I mean?

Meaghan: Yeah.

Karey: information that you obviously need and are not aware of, that's awesome. And then there are times when you don't need it and you get it given anyway. 

Aliza: So I am wondering.

Karey: Yeah.

Aliza: the, so the Trans Am was kind of your first like long distance, like how did you approach that first time, uh, kind of going from like bike touring and more casual biking to, you know, sleeping minimally and pushing your body day after day after day? Like, how did you approach that?

How did that go the first time?

Meaghan: So I did a pretty good test run the summer of 2016 after I, um, realized that I wanted to do the Trans Am but I hadn't upgraded my bike or registered or anything, but I did a 1200 kilometer brevet, um, in Manitoba. And it was pretty challenging, um, to do that, uh, distance. It was, I think we have like 120 hours cutoff, maybe less, maybe 90 hours, I think a 90 hour cutoff.

And I did it in like 84. But, [00:25:00] uh, it was, it was a really good like shakeout ride to see how I dealt with sleep deprivation and, um, the challenges of, you know, back to back long days because before that, you know, I had done the Brevet series of 2, 3, 4, and 600 kilometers, but, um, you know, even a 600 K isn't anything like the Trans Am or those longer rides.

But I think getting through that first 1200 gave me a lot of confidence that like, okay, like I, um, I think I can, I think I can. Do this and keep doing it. And like I mentioned, part of it was the bike I was using, it was a, like a Norco commuter bike that I had been touring on. And I wasn't particularly racey. It had, um, like wider maybe like 37 millimeter tires. And I didn't have any proper kit. I had like makeup bags zip tied to it. I was using like flat pedals and sneakers and I just didn't, um, I, I kind of felt like if I got like a faster, you know, more aerodynamic road bike and good kit, that would be a huge boost that would [00:26:00] just give me free, free miles.

And I was, I was right. And I don't always think that like a new bike is the answer, but in this case, I wasn't using the right bike for ultra cycling like clearly. And um, and once I did get a road bike, oh my gosh. Like I was, I was just on cloud nine. I couldn't believe how fast this thing was. I still can't believe how fast it is 'cause I don't ride road bikes as much.

So whenever I get on it, it just like rips. It's such a nice feeling.

Karey: Totally.

Meaghan: So, so yeah, so that was the, the main thing that kind of gave me confidence. And that was maybe like August of 2016 and the TransAm starts in June. So I had about a 10 month window and it started snowing pretty soon in Saskatoon after I got my road bike.

So I did most of my training indoors, but I didn't have an indoor trainer. I definitely couldn't afford one. So I did it spin classes, um, kind of in 50 minute intervals, which seems like a silly way to train for such a long race. But I was super consistent and, um, I did a good job of developing kind of, you know, good full body, like daily routine.

I [00:27:00] took stuff I had been doing from roller derby so that I would hopefully, um, yeah, kind of like balance out all those imbalances that come from, uh, riding the bike all the time. And, um. And then I thought about the things I would have to learn how to do. I'd, uh, I'd have to learn how to clip in on a bike outside, not just a spin bike. And I would have to learn how to balance in the arrow bars and eat on the bike, and not just when I was stopped at a, at a diner somewhere, and I would have to learn how to bivy and sleep outside. So I kind of, um, went through that quite methodically and I could have practiced some things a bit more. But, you know, I, I divvied in the backyard and I, if I had had more, if I had more time or, you know, wanted to, I could have done an overnighter or something to kind of practice vying in the wild. but I, I definitely like considered, um, all the things that I thought might be useful to do or plan for, or things I didn't know and, and tried to like address those things as best I could. And, um, and yeah, I [00:28:00] think that really helped build a lot of confidence. And like I said, there was things I learned along the way for sure.

But, um, I, I was, I was, yeah, pretty happy with my approach for a newbie.

Karey: That's really awesome. I love that you're just like, these are the things I need to do and I'm gonna check off these boxes. And I mean, that's really, it is so cool. I am not that methodical, I don't think.

Deann: I am totally gonna cowboy camp in my backyard this summer, though. That's a great idea.

Karey: Oh my

Meaghan: And I, I love the bivy. Like, I can't believe I'd never slept in one before, like on my tours, I'd slept outdoors a couple times, um, like outdoors outside of my tent. I mean,

Deann: Mm-hmm.

Karey: Like

Meaghan: um, yeah, cowboy camps. But, um, yeah, sleeping in, in the bivy is, it's one of my, like, one of my favorite experiences about doing ultras and being on tour.

And, you know, of course it's limiting. You can't, um, you know, you don't wanna do it if it's pouring rain or if there's bugs or [00:29:00] ticks or whatever. But when you, when you do get to sleep outside, it's just, uh, it's, it's a different experience being able to kinda look around you versus being in the tent. And, um, I, I really enjoy doing it as much as possible.

Karey: awesome. let's get into it then. you're like saying all these things and I'm like, but what about what happened on a, like, you know what I mean? Like how did that apply to Atlas? So, so the Atlas Mountain race, so in, and I'll go like both after and before and on the show notes and stuff like that, I'll put information about the Atlas Mountain race and also the links to your other things that you have online.

Um, 'cause you talked in depth about all the details. So can you give like a two sentence or three sentence little synopsis of what the Atlas Mountain race, and then maybe go into a little bit about like why you chose this race to do.

Meaghan: For sure. Yeah. So the Atlas Mountain Race is a, a single stage, self-supported race, um, through the High Atlas and anti Atlas Mountains in Morocco. [00:30:00] It starts in Marrakesh, it finishes in Es Sora on the coast. It's 1300 kilometers, uh, around 23,000 meters of elevation. And it's mostly unpaved, so it follows dirt road, um, gravel, some trails, quad, you know, quad trails, a little bit of pavement. And that's, that's it in a nutshell. And there are camels and goats.

Karey: So it's an adventure. Needless to say. It is an adventure. So when did you find out about the Atlas? How did you find out about it and like why, why did you choose to go over there? I,

Meaghan: I think the, um, mountain Race Series organized by Nelson Trees had been on my radar, um, a bit because they are Adventurous races. And I think they're really done in the spirit of, of my hall's, um, racing ethos. Like they're, I I had heard that they're quite [00:31:00] challenging routes and there will be hike a bike and river crossings and, and you know, terrain that could make you, you know, struggle. But it's for a purpose. It's to show you something really special and incredible and to take you someplace you might not see otherwise. And I love the idea of really a, um, a beautifully crafted route that the race director has put some time and energy in, into making. So that's one thing that appealed to me. And I think that, um, you know, the big lonely in Oregon, that's another example of a pretty cool route. Like it takes you places that I, I wouldn't do otherwise. So, um, and then I haven't been to Morocco and I. I dunno, I wouldn't say I wouldn't go otherwise, but I received like a lot of discouraging, um, discouraging notes about traveling there. So when I think about it, um, yeah, I might not have decided to go there otherwise. Um, so it was a good kind of excuse to plan a trip to, to Morocco and I did plan a kind of a trip around that. [00:32:00] Um, and I guess also after I finished the tour divide last year, I was looking for another challenge to do and, uh, it seemed, uh, like this could be one to do the, um, Atlas and the other events in the Nelson Trees Triple Crown or the Triple Nelson.

Karey: Totally. And so, and where are the other two? are the other two races? Mm-hmm.

Meaghan: So the, um, next one is the Hellenic Mountain Race in Greece, and the third one in the series is the Silk Road Mountain Racing in Ki Tostan. They're about three months apart, and they each have kind of different course makeups. So I think that, you know, um, they, yeah, they're, they're gonna be a very different terrain.

They're different lengths and, you know, different, different environments, different cultures. So I'm pretty, pretty excited to be doing such, um, such variety of events in one year.

Karey: Totally. Is there one or the other that you, I mean obviously you've done the Atlas, but you haven't done the other two, but just from the description that like more suits [00:33:00] your riding style and or that like pushes you the furthest for what it offers.

Meaghan: I think I do best on kind of rolling or big climbs and long descents. Um, so probably the Silk Road race. Um, it's a bit longer and I feel like I have done well in longer races, like the tour divide and I have experience, um, you know, in TCR and North Cape 4,000 and the Trans Am. The Atlas Mountain race. Um, I didn't expect it to be as rough as it was, so that challenged me a bit. And I am, uh, terrified about Hellenic because there's a ton of elevation and I don't have great bike handling skills, and that's a weakness of mine. And maybe I signed up for this. Challenge this year so that I would have to develop that skillset. Um, and I, I need to put some work in on my, my by cancelling skills just because I will, you know, lose a lot of time if I don't and potentially hurt myself. Um, so that's, that's the one I'm [00:34:00] least looking forward to. And it's, it's next. And you know, there's different challenges in, in each event. I think, um, with Silk Road, it's quite remote. It's an altitude, a lot of it. Um, and there's some, big, big spans between towns and you really have to be self-sufficient.

I, I've chatted with people who've DNF because they've become like hypothermic and, you know, that, that is a really scary thought, right? Like, And that could happen, you know, that could happen where I live too. But, um, the thought of it happening in some place, so remote and without the same like, you know, search and rescue like that we have, um, in North America, just, it's, yeah, it's, there's some consequences.

Karey: For sure. Yeah.

Meaghan: that with nervous laughter.

Karey: you're like, what am I getting myself into?

Meaghan: Yeah.

Karey: I mean, that's, what's the cha you know, that's the challenge though, is, you know, you have to, you wanna like find those things that, you know, really push you and, and help you grow and, you know, those things that [00:35:00] you're scared of or like, can help you the most.

 That's really cool. And, and are there any other women that are, are planning on doing the Triple Crown this year? Do you know?

Meaghan: Not to my knowledge, no. Um, someone might jump on board though. I feel like Justina wasn't gonna do the Triple Crown in America last year, but it could be a surprise contender.

Karey: Yeah, there's

Aliza: Yeah.

Karey: contingency of ultra racers, women racers right now. It is, you know, but mighty, I mean small compared to the, you know, the men's crew. But I love seeing it grow like it did not used to be like this, and it's just is amazing. just how does it feel to be a part of it?

Meaghan: Super exciting. I loved being able to meet some of these, you know, um, kick-ass racers at the start of, uh, Atlas Mountain Race. So I was chatting with like Mariah Moldenhauer who went on to win, but she had, um, you know, she had won Bright Midnight and I think placed fourth overall. And I was talking, um, with Marsha Wallig, [00:36:00] who had won the Helena race the year before.

And, um, Emma Masala who'd come in second in Helena and Silk Road. So just like being able to talk to these people who have gone out and, um, you know, raced these challenges and. know, events and they're lining them in the start line and of this one, and I get to, to be here and we're all in one place.

Like, I think that's the cool thing. I feel like there's a lot of strong female athletes, but, um, you know, there's a lot of events out there too, so you're not necessarily going to see, um, see too many people at the start line of one, just because, like you mentioned, we are a contingency, but it was, it was cool to meet so many people at, um, yeah.

And to, you know, as I was preparing, there were some things that weren't going so great for me. I had a shoulder injury that was bothering me. I just felt like it was so early in the year. So I was anxious about having so much female competition. But on the other hand, I was really excited to be part of it and realizing that like, we're all kind of on team woman.

Like we, we want the same [00:37:00] thing for the sport. I think we want to see more women competing, um, as much as we want to go out there and do our best. Right? So I think just showing up is a, a big part of that. Um, yeah.

Karey: awesome.

Aliza: So kind of,

Karey: okay.

Aliza: uh, kind of getting from that, um, since it was such a, a stacked field, I'm sure you had like a race plan and Marei had a very fast pace that she was setting. How did you approach that mentally and how did you, did you go out faster? Were you trying to, you know, did that, um, adjust your race plan?

Did you, did you have to adjust your race plan a lot because of that?

Meaghan: Yeah, I, I think I like make plans. This goes for all aspects of my life. I make plans and then when I'm in the thick of it, I'm really like, well, you can only do what you can do. It, it all falls apart pretty quickly for me. Um, one of my best executions was probably two or divide. I think I stayed on my race plan until like day six, and then I fell off of it and was kind of playing catch up. [00:38:00] Um, but in general, like I fall off of my intent a lot quicker. I, and I rarely exceed it. And if I am exceeding it, then I'm probably gonna like, just blow up at some point. Catastrophically. I didn't look at the tracker too much on the first day. I was pretty in my own zone and own bubble and the first night was really challenging.

We went over tele it pass, it's um, 2,600 meters I think, and there's some snow and ice going up that's. Rideable, and then there's a goat trail going down, which for like 90%, 95% of the field was not rideable. It was, uh, it was, it was literally like a snow trail. Um, and, uh, really exciting, you know, the moons out, the stars are out.

You can see everybody's lights around you because you're kind of in the thick of it at this point still. But, um, I wasn't paying attention to where anybody else was because you're, you know what I mean, you're not even able to look at your device easily or anything. So I didn't check the tracker until I was a, uh, about a day in.

And, um, there [00:39:00] was, um. Some, yeah, there was some big climbs and I descended into a town called Afra and I caught up to her at the only like resupply stop there. And I got super excited to have caught her and I kind of thought she was in the lead and I was like, yes, this is my move. Like I'm ready to go. And then like she tells me that she's already like slept for a couple hours and omelets and she's just like ready to go and hit the road again. And I like started to reassess and you know, just realizing that it's, you know, 10:00 PM I've been racing for, um, 28 hours. I've been awake for longer than that because I got up at like nine in the morning the day before.

So I've been up very long time and that, you know, it's still a long race. Like I would have to stop and take a break that night. Otherwise, I think I'd be digging myself into this hole that I probably wouldn't recover so well from. Um, so at that point I kind of felt like I was like. Not letting her go. I wasn't letting her do anything.

I, I felt like she was taking a lead and I needed to take a pause at that point. And [00:40:00] after that first day, I checked the tracker, um, somewhat, uh, yeah, somewhat frequently. And I was kind of aware of where I was in the surroundings. Um, but I think, you know, there was, there was a part of me that was really scared just to not be able to race at all because of my shoulder injury had been giving me some really severe pain. And so the gratitude just for being there and being able to compete and not have that be an issue, kind of overwhelmed those like maybe unhealthy competitive thoughts that I might have been experiencing. 'cause I was just really, really stoked to be in healthy enough to be racing in this country that's so different from my own was such incredible landscapes. And I felt like I was at a point where I was so challenged by the landscapes too. There's, um, you know, there's a lot of rocks in Morocco. It's in the name. uh, that is all stuff outside of my comfort zone. Kind of like the, there's a lot of river beds that we crossed that were dry, and it's just really rough and bumpy and, uh, a little bit frustrating sometimes to navigate at night and, and [00:41:00] some of the chunkier descents in a sense.

I, I felt like I was kind of, um, at my, um, at my mental limit a lot of the time, as well as my physical limit in navigating things and, and being there. I, um, yeah, I wasn't thinking so much about my strategy. I was just trying to, to keep going while maintaining some level of like basic self-care. Um, you know, stopping to, um, to eat, making sure that I didn't miss water resupplies and um, you know, take a shower or clean my shorts when I had the chance.

Karey: Mm-hmm. Yeah, I mean. That's good. Yeah. 'cause I think, I mean, I mean, you hear sometimes about people that, you know, folks can, you can get so caught up in like the race mentality of it. Um, but I do think that that's where Ultras, ultras are unique some ways because like, especially the long, the long stuff, um, the long, long stuff where it's like you, if you don't take care of [00:42:00] yourself, it will probably catch up to you, um, in one way or another, whether it's your clothes or whether it's your, you know, whatever your health or your sleep or your mental or you know, whatever, it will catch up to you.

So it's super smart to,

Deann: Well.

Karey: measures to do that

Deann: Remember, uh, the 2023 race, uh, DRAs

Meaghan: Yeah.

Deann: were like not racing their own races. They were like racing each other.

Karey: other.

Deann: And DRAs literally like went to the hospital with a hundred K to go. you can. If you get too caught up, then it's not gonna go, go well. Like that race, your own race is, is as like Beyonce says, run your own race.

It's important.

Karey: Love

Meaghan: And, and for those of you who don't. Yes. And for, for anyone who doesn't know, Dre is, um, placed third this year. It was a third place tie. So it was really cool to,

Karey: Yeah.

Meaghan: see someone, you know, take that experience, come back and, [00:43:00] you know, race a little bit. Um, I don't wanna say more conservatively, but in tune with what your body is feeling.

And, and I think that we always have these conversations like, is it mental? Is it physical? But like, I think it's both. Like if you, if you just force your body to keep going because you're mentally strong, at some point it's gonna break. Like it's. You know, I think there, there are limits and um, and also like, even if you don't break during the race, like much are you willing to deal with in your recovery?

Like, I feel, I don't wanna sound like a, an old lady here, but I've done a few of these and the, the harder you push, the harder your recovery's gonna be. And, um, and you just have to ask yourself if that's worth it. Right. Um, and I'm thinking about things like, you know, um, having nerve damage in my hands and issues with, you know, saddle sores and stuff that, you know, maybe, um, easing off a little bit, being a little bit less aggressive, might not have been.

So, um, yeah, I might not have gotten to the finish line so wrecked and I made [00:44:00] those choices. I'm happy with those choices, I guess.

Aliza: Mm-hmm.

Meaghan: there, there are consequences to our actions.

Aliza: So it actually reminds me of one another. One of my questions is about like, long your longevity in the sport, given like that fine line of pushing yourself and being competitive, but also taking care of yourself for your longevity on being able to ride a bike and, and do adventures like this. Like how do you, how do you approach that and how do you balance that?

Meaghan: Yeah, I've been avoiding that question. Um, I honestly, I, uh, turned 40 this year and I'm having a bit of like an existential crisis about like, what is my purpose on this earth and what have I accomplished up to this point and what do I want to do for the rest of my life? And, you know, I'm, I'm not married, I don't have kids.

I don't own property. I live at home with my parents. Um, but I have a bike sponsor, like, um, so. I, I'm in a really privileged position. I've always wanted to have a bike sponsor, but at the same time, I, um, yeah, I guess I, don't [00:45:00] know how long I can do the sport for, and I'd love to, to be able to keep doing it, but I, I am realizing that I'm not good at balancing things and, um, maybe that's a, a skill I need to, to continue working on.

Deann: Does

Aliza: Well, it's funny, but I was also thinking like that you also still did a great job in this race by being competitive and you got second, you're only like less than 12 hours behind Mariah that you, uh, you know, still took care of yourself. You still ate and you still rested when you knew like it was better than pushing on.

So, I mean, I see that a little, I see that in your approach to this race. But, um, yeah, it is, it's a tough question. I know.

Meaghan: Yeah.

Deann: Does it feel like you are, are you trying to cram in as much as you can before the clock runs out? I mean, I, I feel like that a lot that I'm, I, I just turned 43 and Aliza and I both had knee, um, total knee replacements when we were 40. and [00:46:00] I feel like I had a good 10 years where I was just injured all the time. And now that it's fixed, like. I'm like, oh no, I'm in my forties and I'm finally healthy

Meaghan: Mm.

Deann: like everything because who knows if that will, how much longer is gonna last?

Aliza: It's also knowing like.

Deann: me or do you feel like that?

Meaghan: I feel like I wanted to do something big to kind of celebrate this year. Just like I wanted to do something big to celebrate graduating, uh, with that bike trip down the Pacific coast. Right. So, um, yeah, and I, you know, I've had other injuries before and I realize injuries can come at any age. Right. Like, it's not just with aging, but I do think having, uh, like I, I crashed in December in Portland and I didn't crash doing anything exciting.

I, uh, I was. I put my hand out to signal and then something came up and I grabbed the brake with my other hand and the wheel turned and I just slammed on my shoulder really hard and I thought it was, uh, just recovering slowly. And then mid-January, I think there was like a pinched nerve, and that was probably partially caused by stuff getting outta joint from the [00:47:00] crash. And then I have way too much time, uh, in front of the computer and I have bad posture. Just being hunched over on the bike doesn't help. And I use dynamic cyclist regularly to, you know, stretch and not try and offset things. But I think that it's, it's a kind of a deep ongoing problem. Um, probably been cultivating this posture since I started writing, you know, university essays. Um, so, so that kind of made me realize my own, like immortality a bit more because when the pinched nerve thing came on, like I couldn't sleep without taking pot gummies. Like I couldn't function as a human. Like I, um, yeah, I just, I couldn't exist without pain. I had to be medicated all the time. And this was, uh, three weeks before Atlas,

Karey: Wow.

Meaghan: Um, I, I was really worried about even flying there. Like, and, and then I'm thinking, Megan, if you're worried about flying to Atlas, you should be worried about racing Atlas. You know? And then, you know, I'm thinking about my mom who would say something like, you should be worried about your general health and wellbeing, not some [00:48:00] stupid bike race. And I'm like, mom, I have sponsors relying on me.

Deann: You don't get it.

Meaghan: And of course these conversations are happening at the dinner table because again, I live with them. Um, yeah, get the have to myself right now. They're on vacation on the island. Oh wait, they're retired, they're vacation.

Karey: party at

Meaghan: but I, I, I, I think that, that, that injury specifically kind of opened up a fragility or my awareness of my own fragility because like I had mentioned, I played roller derby.

I'm used to slamming things and falling down and getting back up. And I, um, I was just not expecting it to take such a toll out of me. And like, you know, this is riding around the city. As we've mentioned, those races are very, very different than that. So I think that that, um, that awareness that we're just kind of skin and bones and flesh and uh, is, is something that I'm having a hard time processing.

Karey: for sure. Now, speaking of crashes, not to bring up a sore subject, but you [00:49:00] had a little spill entering the atlas, is that correct?

Meaghan: Yeah, I wiped out it a few times, but never like anything big at all. Just like little, just like little things and I think, uh, just little things and usually I get a foot down or whatever, but it was, um, I. was, I guess, pretty close to the end, maybe like 900 kilometers in, and it was after CP three. So I had gotten like a pretty good sleep and I had, you know, ridden up a series of climbs and I had done a pretty long gravel descent, and I was feeling good.

And there was a, um, just a little. Section where I could go like hard, right? Or a little right. And I kind of double checked and second guessed myself. And, um, and it was just kind of marly below my wheels and I flew off the bike, um, and I winded myself pretty bad and it just took a minute to process and kind of be like, okay, you're fine. But I was pretty cut up and I decided to not deal with that in [00:50:00] the moment. Um, I was in a kind of a canyon that you had to walk through and hike out of, then there were sections where you could bike a bit and it was still like, kind of on and off the bike. But because my confidence was absolutely shattered, um, I could barely ride.

Like I was really shaky and I was. You know, I, I think the fatigue of being on the bike for that long with not so much sleep over the course of a few days, kind of like it all just kind of caught up to me at that point. And, uh, yeah. And it was a really hard experience and I knew that I just had to keep going, that I, you know, every second I stopped was the second that Mariah got further ahead of me.

And then the next writer, Rachel got closer to me.

Karey: Mm,

Meaghan: And I think I did a pretty good job of staying in motion. Um, but it was, uh, it was, it was challenging to kind of just, um, yeah. To, it was, yeah, not nearly, I. Not the way I would've liked to have ridden that section. And, um, when I got to the next resupply, uh, I just stopped at a small store [00:51:00] and there's, you know, there's a few options, but I just kind of go to the most obvious one.

And it was a small store and they didn't have any running water. So, uh, the shop owner helped me clean up, he scoop water from a bucket and poured it on my hands so I could wash my hands and then start disinfecting my cuts. And I didn't do a great job disinfecting. It was fine, but I still like, looked like a bit of a mess afterwards.

And, when I crossed the finish line, I was just covered in dust and sand and a bit bloody still. And my, you know, I braided my hair into two braids and they'd come like half undone. And I looked like I had been out on the course for like a month and had, you know, like been living with the camels and the, it was, it was, um, yeah, it was, it was a pretty messy looking finish.

Karey: Yeah. You know, but you got it done, so.

Meaghan: I did, and you know, maybe that sand and blood protected me against getting a worse sunburn. Who knows? Barrier protection.

Karey: Oh my God. was that like one of your, as [00:52:00] far as like low points go, we could talk about high points too, but like low points go, was that one of your kinda lowest, or did you have others that were like, you're just like, what am I doing out here? You know, like that kinda stuff.

Meaghan: Yeah, I think that was one of the lower ones because it was such a contrast. Like I was feeling pretty good and then I was just shot down. And, um, I feel like some other low points come from maybe getting a mechanical or kind of a slow onset, like you're biking in the rain and it just doesn't light up and you know, your mood's getting worse and worse.

But that one was just like a, you know, 180 degree pivot, like in the moment. Um, and I think my other low points, maybe there were low points, but there was a few moments on descent where I was a little scared. I was like, oh, you're, you're in over your head, Megan. Like, you can't get off and walk right now.

You can't stop. You have to weather this thing out. And, and just knowing that I, you know, was, uh, was, yeah, I was in over my head. And on the one hand, I think doing things that are on the edge of our boundaries, it can push us to become stronger riders. But, you know, taking into account sleep [00:53:00] deprivation and fatigue, and again, being in a remote area, like I'm not sure if this is the best place to actually test my skills in some regards. Um, so there was, yeah, there was a few moments where I was a bit scared. Um, I had, uh, I had some lower back pain and I, I think that some of that was caused from not setting up my bike fit and not, um, yeah, just having a newer bike that I needed to adjust to, and that definitely took a hit on my mood.

Like I was not feeling so hot in the second half of the race because I was experiencing this lower back pain. Um, think different from the upper back pain that I'd had before I left.

Karey: Yeah. Swapping one for the other.

Meaghan: Yeah.

Karey: Yeah.

Meaghan: the thing about, I think the thing about these challenges is that like it is a long time. Um, you know, I was on the course for five days, an hour and 30 minutes, but in the scheme of our lives, it's a short time. So there's a lot, there's a lot happening and situations or circumstances changed so quickly.

So, um, you know, when things weren't going well, like the sun [00:54:00] would come up and my mood would shift again, or, um, you know, I would hit a nice section of tarmac and I'd be like, oh, thank God. And I could just fall into the arrow bars and like turn off for a few minutes. Um, so I feel like there's a, just that constantly changing environment is, um, it can be, it can be good if you're, um, if you're looking to, to switch things up.

Karey: Yeah. And I always get to remember it's, it's. It's not gonna last forever. you're dealing with. Sometimes that's unfortunate. 'cause if you're super happy right then it's not gonna last forever. There's gonna be something, you know, that punches you down. But on the other hand, if you're down, then you're, you'll more than likely get back up.

So, yeah. So how did you, so

Aliza: I think another, uh, sorry. Well, the other thing I was gonna say too is I think a big part of these races and seeing how people approach them is not just like going fast and being fit, but it's like problem solving when the things don't go right, which there's always gonna be something that doesn't go right.

Um, [00:55:00] and it's how you approach that and talk yourself through it. And even if it's, it really sucks like that, you know that the sun will come up. In a few hours or that things will ch, the tide will change. It's just getting through that, you know, that hard part or that problem.

Karey: Yeah.

Meaghan: Yeah, I think like the problem solving, like you said, is, is a huge part of the events and, um. And it's just you out there with whatever you've chosen, chosen to bring, right? So it can be

Aliza: Mm-hmm.

Meaghan: to see what kind of creative solutions come or what, you know, what creative tricks you play in your mind to get yourself to, brighten up and get through things as well.

There was a, um, another writer from Canada, Alex McLean, and he, uh, he got to Marrakesh, but his bike arrived, but his gear did not arrive. So he had his bike, but he didn't have, um, didn't have his bike shoes, didn't have his bike bags, didn't have his tools, didn't have anything. So he sourced everything literally like the day [00:56:00] before. And the day of the race, I think because he was hoping his gear would arrive and at one point he was like, okay, I'm gonna race it. I gotta get everything. So, um, yeah, the race director put out a call for kind of donations and uh, he got everything together to race. It was not the ideal setup. Um. I feel like I would love to talk to him more about his journey because I feel like it must have been problem solving from start to finish, because first you're just getting the gear, um, in Marrakesh, unfamiliar city with different bike stores.

And we have, you know, in a place like Portland or Kelowna where I live, and then you're, you don't have the familiarity with your gear and there's gonna be problems, stuff isn't gonna fit on your bike properly. Like, and then you're gonna face the problems that everybody else is, you know, being faced with, uh, like the weather and, you know, um, the big distances between resupplies. So, uh, and he was maybe the second or third to last finisher, but he finished in the general classification, so he's an official finisher. And, um, yeah, I I think that his stories must be just wild of problem [00:57:00] solving right from start to finish.

Aliza: Wouldn't that be a really good like reality show like bike packers show up like the amazing race, like these, you know, either source all your things like the hour before the race and then start and see how people problem solve that.

Karey: Exactly. That'd be amazing. Um, so did you feel like you were, so speaking of like being prepared, first of all, I always love to ask people like, is there any one thing that you bring that's kind of like, uh, not a necessity item, but like your comfort item that you like, totally don't need, but you always bring it anyway?

Meaghan: I try to really keep things minimal, so I would say like. Earplugs. Um, I'm not sure if everybody brings earplugs, but I'm a sensitive sleeper and, like if my partner gets like a text on his phone and it buzzes, I'm just like, that's it. Like I, I'm awake now, like, so I get [00:58:00] really, um, I get interrupted easily.

So maybe it's not, um, maybe it's not a luxury item. Maybe I just need them, but find they, uh, yeah, they really help me get a quality sleep in. Um, this time I brought a second pair of earbuds. I, I feel like earbuds are a necessity, but I always seemed to lose them or break them or get them caught in my spokes.

So I put a second pair in my first aid kit and, uh, didn't have to use them, but I was glad that I brought them. Yeah.

Karey: Yeah. That's cool. So then other than that, like, did you feel like the things that you brought were, were like the adequate amount of things that you brought and like, did you use most everything that you brought or did you wish you had more, or like, how'd you feel?

Meaghan: pretty good about packing. I packed pretty similar to the tour divide. There's big swings in temperature here, like there is on the tour divide. It's longer than some of the shorter races where you know you're gonna be done in 24 or 48 hours where you can really skimp on sleep gear and cold weather kit if it's a warmer place.

So, um, yeah, so I [00:59:00] packed. Yeah, similarly, I used the same epidural bike bags, um, the same seven mesh kit I think I brought, um, a little bit too much. And I, you know, the nights were quite cold, like it was, you know, below freezing. I, uh, have a pretty warm sleeping bag, so I was quite cozy and I brought long Johns and like a long sleeve base layer and extra socks, like warm socks to sleep in. And I don't think I really needed those things. Like, I think I would've been okay just in some light and cotton shorts. I could have slept in my cycling jersey, could have forgone the extra pair of socks. And, um, I really dislike being cold and I don't do well in colder weather. So I think those are all things that I packed to be on the safe side. But there's, there's so much elevation in this race and, um, you know, everything, everything counts. So if I, if I was gonna do it again, I probably would've removed those items and just. You know, plan to be sure to sleep at lower elevations. And, um, there was a list of emergency or not emergency items, a necessary kit that we were provided [01:00:00] with.

And it was checked, which was, um, I think really good to have because it's, yeah, it keeps you safer and it puts everyone on the same playing field. Like you, everyone has to have a sleeping bag rated to this. Everyone has to have a rain jacket and a puffy jacket. Like, um, uh, yeah. So I think it's good for safety and, and if you're, if you look at, you know, some of the lead riders and it doesn't look like they have anything, like, you know, you know, they still have those rider, those, those items.

Karey: Yeah, that's great.

Meaghan: Yeah.

Karey: think it's smart. It's super, I mean there's a lot of like, um, I mean to think a lot of like the super I dunno, just like in the ultra running world as well, that happens with some of the major, like the mountain races and stuff like that. Um, there's necessary gear, I think is great.

Meaghan: Yeah.

Karey: to be safe. Yeah. Awesome. So can you talk a little bit about like your sleep, because that's something I am always curious and like, did you do night ride training? Beforehand, or is it just your experience from the other races or like how do you deal?

Meaghan: [01:01:00] It's experience from the other races. When I was training to do the Trans Am I did more night ride training because I hadn't done night riding much before and it was really important to just, I didn't get comfortable and I did that with the R Deez. So it was nice to not be alone out on the roads. And now I kind of feel like I have enough night riding that I don't like necessarily need to practice it anymore.

I understand what it's going to be like, and it's just making sure that, you know, my lights are set up at a

Karey: Mm-hmm.

Meaghan: proper angle and things like that. so for, for sleep, I, I knew that I wanted to ride through the first night, the restarts at 6:00 PM which is kind of a challenging time because you only get about a day of daylight and then it's night, and then you have to decide when you want to stop and sleep.

And I knew that I wanted to ride through the first night and the first day to, um, to do a 24 hour stint and then find a spot. And then after I'd finished, you know, my 24, 28 hour stint, that's when I ran into Marei. Um. I love bivying and I think that, [01:02:00] um, that's a, it's a good skill to have. You can sometimes have shorter stops if you bivy, because you're not tempted to, you know, get comfy in a bed and check your phone and take a shower. On the other hand, I do think it's important to, um, to shower and get clean. And it's, you know, necessary to plug in sometimes. So, uh, I, I usually try and do a mix of both and kind of anticipate that it'll be about 50 50. on Atlas I slept, uh, I guess I slept four times and once was inside, and that was at CP three. And if you wanted to do the race and sleep inside the entire time, you totally could. Um, there's a lot of guest houses and, um, a lot of the cafes will let you sleep there if you just ask around. In the smaller towns, people are pretty aware of the event, so you can give them a bit of money and sleep in their house, and it's, uh, it's pretty easy to stay inside if you, if you wanted to.

But, um, I think I enjoy being alone. And one of the things that I really love about, [01:03:00] um, yeah, uh, about bike packing is sleeping under the stars and, and just getting out there. So to be able to do that was a real, uh, a real treat. Um, I. I slept, I slept well. I think I should have tried for more sleep on the first night.

So I, think I slept two and a half hours the first night. The second night I felt like I didn't get enough sleep the first night, so I slept for four hours. The third night I slept maybe three and a quarter hours. And then the fourth night I just slept for two hours and, um, pushed on to the, to the finish. I think there's a lot of changing attitudes about sleep. When I first started Ultra, it was like, don't sleep at all. Just race. And I feel like now we're realizing that if you sleep more, you're probably gonna be faster. And I still think the no Strat, no sleep strategy can work on shorter events, like under 36 hours or maybe 40 something hours, but on, on longer events.

Um, you know, there's definitely a, a trade off. Your power's probably gonna be better if you get a bit more sleep. And for [01:04:00] me it's trying to maximize the time around my sleep. So to be able to, um, use that last hour on the bike really productively and not start slowing down when I get a little bit tired and then to, to wind down, to go to sleep pretty efficiently.

So I kind of have a little like brush my teeth routine where I use that to lower my heart rate and get cozy. And then in the morning, um, like especially when it's chilly, it's, it's just hard to get outta that groggy stage and get back on the bike when you would rather be cud up and cozy in you're busy.

But, uh, I think that's probably my biggest challenge is. The, the first maybe half hour after waking up and taking care of those things, like getting food into you and packing up your gear. And I've, I've lost things and dropped things because I'm not like with it enough. I lost my StuffSack for my sleeping bag and my puffy jacket and just had to like, shove them in my seat, post bag.

Uh, so I, I have to source new ones of those now, but it was, I'm, I'm sure it was just [01:05:00] because I unpacked them and didn't see them in the morning or something. I have no idea. I can't, I can't tell you what happened to them.

Karey: The camels.

Meaghan: Yeah.

Karey: and took them.

Meaghan: Yes. Little midnight snack.

Karey: my gosh. Yeah. Did you have any issues with like animals as you slept or anything like that?

Meaghan: No. One night when I camped, I saw a sign that said Camel Crossing. And I remember thinking like, do I have to worry about camels climbing on me or walking over me? Like, I didn't think too hard about it. Um, but, uh, um, yeah, I didn't, I don't think there's, like, there's not a lot of wild life there. And the towns, there's lots of dogs and they bark a lot.

So that was one of the reasons I wanted to bivy out of town so I didn't have to listen to the dogs barking.

Karey: Yeah.

Meaghan: Um, on the course, I think I was chased a couple times by dogs. When I was touring further north, I was chased a lot. There's a lot more, um, um, like herd animals, goats and sheep, and they're, they're, you know, [01:06:00] working farm dogs, so they're pretty protective of their animals. Um, but where the race course was, there were fewer dogs. Um, I mean, on a scale of one to Arkansas, it was a, it was like a two.

Karey: I love it. Oh my gosh, that's so great. So can you talk more about, let's like transition into, I wanna hear more about your experience like. a woman going either into this race or just going to Morocco in general. Um, both. You're a little bit of touring before, and then you're, you toured afterwards as well. Um, can you talk about that and like, how was it for you? Were you nervous? Were you scared? How were the people? Et cetera, et cetera.

Meaghan: Yeah, so I, um, talked to a few people who traveled to Morocco before, but on tours mostly. And, and [01:07:00] they were like, oh, either you're gonna have a great time. And then they find out I didn't have a guide and be like, oh, uh, you might wanna rethink that. Or they were people who, um, were on tours and maybe didn't have such a great time in some of the bigger cities.

And I, uh, I had one really lovely lady say that it was just, um, markets and mosques and like, you're gonna get bored real quick. I was like, think

Aliza: I.

Meaghan: something more to see than markets and mosque. Um, but uh, thanks.

Karey: that the name of her tour, or maybe that's all they did see?

Meaghan: And, um, yeah, so I had some trepidation, but I also, you know, I'm friends with Mel Webb, who, um, had raced it the year before and she had given me a lot of encouragement and, you know, talked about how friendly the people were and how she hadn't had any negative interactions as a woman. And I, you know, listened to other podcasts of, um, people who raced it and, you know, other women, uh, kind of seeking out what they had to say.

And, and yeah, people didn't seem to have too [01:08:00] many, um, bad experiences. So, um, I was, uh, I haven't traveled much in the past few years outside of North America and like Western Europe, so I, uh, was definitely going to a place that was a bit different for sure. I've never been to Africa and, you know, it's, um, is, uh, an Islamic culture is different than, you know, where I live in Canada for sure.

But, um, I, I found right away that people were really warm and welcoming and friendly and had a lot of, uh, um. a lot of like excitement and emotion just coming in, and I'm so glad that I got to tour a bit before the race and I gave myself time on the front end to, to spend a bit of, um, you know, time getting to know my new bike and, and just not have to think about being competitive.

Um, and I get to, yeah, just to get, to feel a bit more comfortable with things. I, um, I biked to a place called Iil in the mountains. It's near Mount Tube call, which is the, the highest peak in the area. And, [01:09:00] you know, there was, there was like snow everywhere and I was not expecting that at all. I think I had the hot Sahara Desert in mind when I thought of Morocco. Um, and I stayed at a really, really lovely guest house and it had been recommended on, um, like a cyclist blog. And the folks running it were just wonderful people, really friendly. The food was amazing and they, you know, they came and chatted with me and the other folks staying there, but they, um, you know, the, the address, I think it was on Airbnb and they had given me the, uh, the address or.

Or I guess I had thought they had given me the address. And in their, um, guest house description, they say that they meet people in the car park in town because you can't get to their house by car. Um, you have to walk up like a goat trail. So they meet people at the car park in town and put their bags in a donkey and help them get to the guest house.

But when they found out I was coming by bike, they gave me a different location. And I thought that was location at the guest house, but it, it wasn't. And then I got to this location and it was at the top of the stairwell and there was a, a [01:10:00] guy in a traditional, um, like striped cloak and um, and he said, hi, I am, you know, I'm Abdul, uh, and uh, I'm gonna, you know, you're Megan, I'll take you to the guest house. And I didn't. I didn't talk to a person of the same name via my, um, Airbnb conversations. I was chatting with like a another guy, and so I didn't know who this person was and I was convinced that he was taking me to the wrong guest house and he was just trying to get me to come to his guest house because I've had this experience in like Thailand and stuff.

And uh, and was, uh, we were walking along this road and then we were walking up like a series of stairs and really this labyrinthine climb. And I was like, where is this person taking me? And then we got to a guest house and he invited me to come in and bring my bike in. And I was like, am I just going to some random person's house?

Like, I don't know what's going on here. This isn't the person I was interacting with. I have no cell service. Like, I was starting to get worried and there's a German couple on the patio in the back, like, you [01:11:00] know, sipping tea and they look so relaxed. So they put me a bit at ease and I, I think I said something like, is this the real two call guest house?

Like this is what I'm supposed to be staying at the real two call guest house. And they're like, yeah. It is. Like, what are you so stressed about? It was at that point that I was like, okay, it's, it's fine. Like I, um, this was the, the owner's brother that had come down to meet me and I just had, um, yeah, I had a lot of yeah.

Fear about, you know, being ripped off or taken to the wrong place. And, um, and it was, it was unwarranted. So, um,

Karey: Oh

Meaghan: yeah. then during, yeah, I guess during my time in Morocco, people dress very conservatively, not just women. Everyone dresses like in long sleeves and there's not a lot of exposed skin. And so that's kind of how I dressed when I traveled so that I wouldn't stand out so much.

And, um, the temperatures were quite cool and a lot of the places I was visiting, so to me, I didn't really feel like I was like having to cover up. I just felt like these clothes were mostly [01:12:00] appropriate for the weather. On some of the hill climbs, I definitely wished I could have stripped down a bit more, but in general, like I felt pretty fine wearing long sleeves and, and, you know, leggings most of the time. Um, and uh, and during the race I wore shorts and a jersey and I, I didn't really feel like I got any weird looks aside from the weird looks people give you when you're a hot bloody mess, like biking down the road. Um, so yeah, so I took a bit of a different attitude when I was traveling by myself. I tried to blend in a bit more when I was racing.

I just thought, what am I most comfortable in? What's best for my or most comfortable in, for racing? What's best for my performance in the sport? And, um, I brought a headscarf because someone had told me to, and I, uh, used it as just a regular scarf. Most of the time. I guess it was just a regular scarf. But, um, I, I used it as a headscarf in, uh, one guest house because there was a vendor that would always like hassle me when I came around the corner. So I started putting it on when I left the guest house to try and like disguise my identity. But, uh, I think he knew it was [01:13:00] me 'cause he'd always be like, Hey Canada, come over here. I was like, damnit a stupid puffy jacket. Gives me away. Um,

Karey: my

Meaghan: yeah,

Karey: Now do you speak French?

Meaghan: no, I am a terrible Canadian.

Karey: okay. Did, yeah. That's okay. I'll forgive you. You're Canadian, so you get away with anything. Did you, did you, and so that was fine. Like you didn't need to really over there or,

Meaghan: would've been nicer to speak, uh, French for sure. I think I would've been able to have a deeper interaction with people. Um, and, um, there's a lot more French spoken than English and further north there's some Spanish because of the proximity to Spain. So I definitely wish I spoke more French. I had been, you know, doing du lingo for a 50 day streak, but that wasn't enough apparently.

Deann: Dang it,

Meaghan: Um, and I feel like I. I used the Translate app quite a bit, [01:14:00] and I, I feel like there was a few situations where I had a hard time making my point across. Maybe not when I was racing, but other times. And, uh, and, and having kind of these frustrating gaps in communication, even with the, the translate apps and just being like, oh, Megan, like I, yeah, I, I wish I was better at languages. Um, and, uh, but I'm, but, but I'm not. And I was like, oh, the next race is in Greece. I'll try learning Greek. And I, I started doing it in Google Duolingo, and I was like, whoa. not smart enough for I, I can't, I can't. I'm gonna, I'll, I'll do Spanish because I'm going to New York instead.

Karey: My gosh. That's funny. Yeah. I actually know quite a bit of French, so I, I am, if we end up going there, I'm actually very excited to be able to test a little bit out. So

Meaghan: Oh, yeah.

Karey: actually, besides my, so we went to Europe this last year or this last summer. Um, my boyfriend is, uh, German and his, his mom's German.

And so we went to a wedding over there. And, um, anyway, so his, uh, cousin, um. [01:15:00] Her fiance now husband is, um, French. And so half the wedding party was French and half the wedding party was German. So I got to, it was the first real French, well, besides my French teacher, like in high school. And then in college it was like the first time that I'd ever had the experience to be able to like, speak to somebody in French. And it was so exciting. Like, I was just like, I've never been able to do this before. And anyway, and so, and I was, I was actually very excited because I think historically, like when I was growing up, like I, uh, and, and learning the language, I was always very self-conscious about it. Um, and like, oh, they're gonna judge me, you know, for like, trying to speak this language or whatever.

Um, but then now that I've been, you know, in college there's so many, um, students from all over the world and they're there speaking English as their second language and

Meaghan: Yeah.

Karey: their second language, and which I totally admire. And I'm like, I'm not sitting here judging them on. You know, on English as a [01:16:00] second language, so there's no need.

And anyway, so it was very freeing to be able to like try that out. And so I'm like, now I'm like, okay, I gotta be a jet little jet setter and

Meaghan: Yeah.

Karey: everywhere French speaking, so I can try out my French, but I feel like I need to learn like exact like things to say, like either that have to do with bikes or that have to do with food or, you know, those primary things that you have to learn about or have to speak to people about.

But Oh, that's

Meaghan: yeah, for sure.

Karey: So what else did you do when you were, so after the race is finished, how long did you, did you like take a couple days rest and then like, or like Yeah. Talk

Meaghan: Yeah. all of the mountain race events have a finisher's party and the, I think the official time cutoff is like 10:00 PM or midnight at the finisher's party. I planned to stay around for that. Um, I, um, booked my accommodation ahead of time, so I was like hoping I would be there on the right day. And I was, I booked for the right [01:17:00] day.

It wasn't too early or too late, and I stayed at a really lovely riyad, which is kind of an old, you know, traditional home with a courtyard in the center. And, uh, it had an amazing Moroccan breakfast. It, um, it was just like, there's all these little containers with like olive oil and loo and honey, and then there's bread and pastry and I think there was like dates and dried figs and some cheese and uh, and just like everything, my little hungry post-race cycling heart could have wanted like a pot of coffee and a pot of tea.

It was amazing. And I was the only person there for a couple nights. So there was a big long table and then like this giant breakfast spread for just me. It was such a treat. I loved it.

Karey: Oh,

Meaghan: I spent I think four nights. There or three nights there. Um, just kind of recovering and hanging out with people who came in after me. And, um, eating a lot, drinking a lot of lattes. There's a bunch of great crepe stands, so I ate a ton of, [01:18:00] like, my favorite was Nutella banana. And then, um, Rachel, one of the Irish beam mill riders, third place, she got me hooked on like, uh, Fromage Champignon cheese and mushroom. It

Karey: mushrooms.

Meaghan: was so good.

Deann: Ooh.

Meaghan: So I ate tons of crepes and I just was staying in the Medina, so I wandered around the, you know, the alleys and just tried different foods.

And the Medina in Marrakesh just kind of intense. It's huge. There's people everywhere. You're gonna get hassled a bit, not hassle. People are gonna talk to you and try and get you to buy things and call out at you. But es Sora is pretty relaxed in comparison. It's nowhere near as big. It feels very safe.

Like I walked back by myself from the, the restaurant bar once at like midnight and I didn't have any sort of like, security concerns and I felt, um, yeah, I just felt like pretty, like it was a pretty good place for a finish line. Um, definitely a place I'd recommend visiting if you're touring or something as well.

It's a, it's a, [01:19:00] it's a lovely place on the water. And then after that I took. The, um, there was a bus organized for the racers, uh, to head back to Marrakesh. So I spent a night there. Um, I swapped gear, collected my, you know, bike box and, uh, prepared myself for touring. And I took a bus to Fez further north and I wanted to kind of see bits of, uh, different terrain, bit different part of the country. And I toured the root of the caravans, and that's a route that kind of does the, the length of Morocco. Um, from there towards Tangier and I, I guess I was looking for like a bike route, um, where I didn't have to make the route and I could just follow somebody else's research and stuff. And the root of the caravans is a mix of pavement and gravel.

And it's, um, there's some challenging more mountain bike sections, but I didn't ride any of those. Those were further south. Um, and the part I rode was really beautiful and like, uh, really, really different from the area of the race and the Atlas Mountains. It's a lot greener, there's a lot more, um, you know, crops and olive [01:20:00] trees and, um, just.

Tons of, uh, sheeps and goats and there's a lot higher population, which isn't, there's not tons of people, but there's just like little villages and people are, you know, using the land. So anytime you go anywhere, there's, um, you know, folks with riding donkeys or carrying things on their backs. And there's, uh, I, I said hi to like hundreds of people every day.

Like literally like everyone I saw, I would say, or, um, I'm say in Spanish, I, I should know this, I do know this. I'm just tired.

Karey: Totally fine. I don't even know.

Meaghan: Um, yeah, so it was, it was, it was interesting to be in a place that was not isolated and remote at all. And I wasn't, uh, it was harder to stealth camp. Um,

Karey: yeah.

Meaghan: but it is still a really, yeah, really good experience. 

Was invited in to eat with people and kind of get to, to know folks. And that was, I think because I was touring at a slower pace, I could say yes to those opportunities.

And if I was racing, [01:21:00] I would've said no and just, um, continued on my way. So it was cool to get to, yeah, to experience a place a little more fully and not to have such a, a strict agenda. Um, people like, I mean, I, yeah, people reacted like almost with sympathy when they found out I was by myself because no, there's, um, real family culture and I think the idea that I was having this experience on my own, like made, made people sad. So they were really generous and friendly to me because I think they felt bad for Canadian woman with no friends and no husband and no kids, just a bicycle.

Karey: Oh no. And see that's the one thing I, I wonder if like, you know, the experience of, of being there solo versus like, let's say the three of us traveled together, you know what I mean? How much different that would be. Um, as far as like sharing those [01:22:00] experiences with, um, or like being approached more or welcome in more of, you know, if there's more of us, if that would, you know, I don't

Meaghan: Yeah.

Karey: think it would change the experience a little bit.

Meaghan: Yeah. I think it might, in, in, I think in some of the more remote sections, it might be fun to kind of, you know, if you're, if you're camping out and there's like 12 hours of nighttime, it's nice to kind of spend that with other people sometimes. As much as I love, like myself, um, I met three women from Belgium and they had, I think, flown to Tangier and picked up like junkie bikes at the market, like used bikes and they were just riding for two weeks and then they were gonna sell them or give them away or something. And they were, they were real, um. Yeah, real adventurous, really fun ladies. And they basically said their strategy, like they had, they had no strategy. They basically would just pick a line on the map and kind of go that way. And then when they got to a town around Sunset, they would start asking where they could stay. And none of the small towns have no [01:23:00] accommodation. There's no guest house, there's no rooms for rent, there's no campground, there's nothing. I mean, I don't wanna say nothing. There's no infrastructure for tourism. And um, and they were put up by local families. Um.

Pretty regularly . I don't think they had, uh, they'd only been touring for a few days when I met them, but they hadn't encountered a situation where people were like, you can't stay here.

You know, there was, they said it was like a telephone chain where people tried to find a place for the three of them to stay and, and because they're from Belgium, they spoke French. So that probably made things, um, a bit easier and they could interact better. But, um, they seemed to be having a really fun trip. I think their bikes were all kind of in worse for wear already, and they were a bit concerned about getting to, to Marrakech, but otherwise having a really good trip together. And, um, yeah.

Karey: Oh, that's so awesome. Oh my gosh. This just makes me wanna go. I'm in.

Meaghan: Oh, you're gonna have such a good time. If you do go, let me know if you have other questions. I guess I've said this before, but, [01:24:00] um. You cannot be invisible on a bike in Morocco. You're just like a different, um, you're a different thing. Like people know that you're not from around there, so everyone notices you and, and says hi.

And, you know, uh, so many times I would get to a, you know, a store. I was gonna say gas station, but there's a lot more stores. And I would buy something and I would just go to like, sit on the ground because that's my go-to when I'm touring or racing. I just sit in the ground and I have my snacks and people would see me do this and they'd come over with a chair because I, you know, I can't be sitting like on the ground. And um, and you know, if there was teenagers around and they spoke any level of English, they would come over and ask me just questions and just have really friendly chats, which was lovely. Um. And I had some, some other experiences with kids that weren't so good and they were just exhausting. If you go past a school and it's before or after, they all are like yelling at you and saying hi, and, and, and sometimes that can be really in intense and sometimes kids threw stones at me and sometimes they [01:25:00] swore at me and sometimes they chased me and grabbed my bike.

So I did have some not so great experiences with children, but I also had some really lovely ones. Um, kind of like have this like, I don't know what like, like herd mentality sometimes that was just like too much for me and I didn't really know how to handle. But um, in situations where I was stopped and actually talking with people, like everyone was always really nice.

It's, uh, yeah.

Karey: Yeah. Oh my gosh.

Meaghan: There was one Strava segment that I went through that said, uh, it was called Runaway from the Kids, and it was like, uh, a switchback through a town and the kids like could run up the hill and cut the switchback. So they get you at the bottom and then further up. And, uh, yeah, I, and it, you know, it's going uphill, like as fast as you're pedaling.

These kids are great at soccer. Like they're, they're gonna outrun you, like athletic little ones,

Karey: oh, no, I would think,

Meaghan: but Yeah. No, I [01:26:00] don't wanna scare you though. The kids are like, yeah, they're mostly fun. Sometimes They're a lot and,

Karey: yeah.

Meaghan: you know, I think a lot of people bring little gifts or pens and so they, you know, they ask for a stylo or a kiddo and I, you know, as a bike tourist, I don't have any of those things to give them.

Right. So I just try and be really friendly and fun. And I think, um, I think some of them appreciated that. And I think some of them were like, yeah, but like, where's my pen? Like, the worst tourist ever.

Karey: Oh no, that's so funny. Noted. I'll just need a little stash of steelo and then that'll be my one accommodation that I bring with me. That is unnecessary weight

Meaghan: You a luxury item.

Karey: in my luxury item. Exactly. Oh my gosh. this sounds amazing. Like I just, you know, it's, I think it's a little hard because again, I mean, I have never been to Africa.

I've never been to a place like that. You know, I've only traveled in like European slash Americas and um, Northern Americas, and, um, [01:27:00] it's sounds just like a huge adventure. It's so exciting that you got to, do it.

Meaghan: Yeah, no, it definitely felt that way. I had to let go of some things a bit like even when I was touring, you know, Knowing that I didn't know where I was gonna be able to sleep at night was challenging. And if I was racing, I just wouldn't care. Like, I, I, I, I don't worry as much. I, I mean, maybe it sounds like I do worry from the things I've said in this podcast, but I just trust that I'll find a place to sleep. But when I'm touring, like, you wanna find a nice place to sleep, you don't wanna sleep in a ditch somewhere, you know? So, um, but I just had to let go and trust that I would find a place to sleep and things would come together or whatever, and, and they, um, yeah, they, they did. So I think Morocco is a pretty great place for bike touring because there's not, um, um. There's not a lot of traffic. There's quite a few roads, uh, to choose from. There's gravel roads, there's paved roads, there's paved roads that aren't in such great condition. That's great to [01:28:00] have gravel bike for. Um, I, um, there's lots of stores to, to stock up on. Resupply. There's great food. It's, it's very reasonably priced.

The Canadian dollar's not so hot right now. So it was nice being in a place where I could afford to eat out.

Karey: Yeah.

Meaghan: And, um, you know, when there, there are bigger towns, there's um, there's, you know, they're nice places to take a day's rest and, um, enjoy the, the markets and uh, you know, I would just like buy olives and tangerines and snack my little heart out.

Karey: Seriously. Oh my gosh, that's, well, you're selling it, so good job. I'll tell the, the tourism board over in

Meaghan: Yes.

Karey: or in Morocco. Oh my gosh. Well, so, I mean, I don't wanna sound cliche, but like what, so you're recovering, you're training again, getting your bike skills on, are you [01:29:00] feeling, so are you doing anything in between these races or like these races you're big shebang 

Meaghan: Yeah, really prioritizing these races. And this year, um, my kinda two extras are, uh, my sister's wedding, which was last weekend. So that was a, a weekend away and it was a bit of a drive and a ferry to get there. So that was a chunk out of my, um, training. And then I'm doing a gravel race here in BC called the Ferny Gravel Grind in July, and that's about a six, seven hour drive away. Uh, so other than that, like these are kind of my three big things and I'll kind of, um. know, hopefully do something in the fall, but I'm not ready to commit to anything at that. Yeah. Quite yet. yeah, yeah. I, I know from experience how much energy it takes to prepare for a race and I, I felt like with the three of them, I don't wanna load anything else on my plate. I think too, because they're all slightly different, so I can't take like the same configuration and just [01:30:00] repeat it three times over. So,

Karey: Yeah, definitely. I mean, it's very smart. It's another way you're taking care of yourself, you know what I mean? There's only so much you can do and you wanna do them well. Um, and so it's like you gotta, you know, have that focus and super smart of you. So good job. You can

Meaghan: thanks.

Karey: on the back.

Meaghan: I've also allotted some time, um, around each of the races to do some touring and, and it's because I like type one Fun two, right? Like, I don't wanna always be hammering my head down and, um. I don't know, you know, when the next time we'll be back in Morocco or Greece or Stan will be. So I, I really want to be able to enjoy it in kind of these different levels.

And after a race, like I can't jump back into training anyways. I need some time to, to recover and I can usually get back on the bike pretty soon. But, um, you know, with bike touring there's no like set mileage you have to do, you can really play it by ear and by feel, which I think is a, a blessing.

Karey: Yeah, for sure. It's so cool to have that mix.

Meaghan: Yeah.

Karey: That's [01:31:00] one thing I'm realizing like as I age, I mean I'll also be 43. All of us are Aliza. Are you a year older? You're a year older. Yeah. Yeah,

Deann: You are only,

Karey: So,

Deann: she's only like two months older than me, but it's a, but it's a calendar year.

Karey: the big calendar year.

Meaghan: Right.

Karey: anyway, so the big, the big 4, 3, 4, 4, whatever we wanna say this year, and it's like really realizing that, you know, most of the riding bike packing that I was doing was, or I think we were doing was all like this type two, type four fun stuff.

And at some point it's like, I just want, I just want like a leisure tour. I just want, you know, 'cause it can be both and you can get joy out of both. You know what I mean? And so that's what, you know, one thing I've really been focusing on this year is trying to get a little bit of that other to then help me find that joy and then be able to also be competitive at it.

Um, is, I think it's important. Yeah.

Meaghan: Yeah, I'm a hundred percent with you. I think that sometimes people [01:32:00] enter an event and they really want to challenge themselves, and then they get there and then they're kind of like. But like, I have a really stressful job and I had these two kids at home and this is my holiday. What the hell am I doing?

Right. So, um, being able to make time for both of those kinds of, of fun can be, can be really, uh, necessary, I guess. Yeah. And then, you know, other people might sign up for an event and, and be completely happy just to, you know, punish themselves for however long. But I, I do, I, I feel like I've definitely read reports from people who enter something and just are like, why am I doing this with my time off?

Karey: exactly. It is just more stress,

Meaghan: Yeah.

Karey: exactly. Yeah. Oh, well, all good things. Oh my gosh. Deann and Aliza, do you have anything more that you wanna know? We've covered so much tonight.

Deann: I

Karey: wants to know. Oh, is she.

Deann: Aliza's, AirPods are dead. can't talk anymore.

Karey: wanna create an echo.[01:33:00] 

Deann: Oh, she wants to know if you're gonna do the big lonely again.

Meaghan: I would love to do the Big Lonely again. I think it's a really special route. And the bike packing around Bend is awesome, or the gravel biking or All Bend is amazing. Um, so definitely, uh, definitely on my, my radar. Um, I don't have a timeline, but I think it would be, you know, knowing, I think I have the FKT on it, it would be cool to see where I stand on that time.

And, um, and it was a beautiful course, so I would love

Karey: she's going after you have to get FKT, by the way,

Meaghan: broken.

Karey: that was a joke. She says.

Meaghan: I mean, if you don't fall apart in the single track, you'd probably stand a chance. That's what, that's what killed me. I literally did not know that the last, like, like 60 miles are a single track descent and I am so bad at that. And it was all like volcanic rock everywhere. And I, I just, uh, [01:34:00] I. I think I was in disbelief and denial for a lot of it.

And then yeah, I, yeah, it took, it took way longer than I thought it would

Deann: Garmin basically said that there was no climbing left. Then we just kept hitting these like crazy. Like, oh, nevermind. You're gonna hike your bike up this for a

Meaghan: really pitchy. Yeah.

Deann: it was miserable.

Meaghan: Yeah,

Deann: then you get to the road and you're like, oh my God, there's still like eight miles of road to and climb a hill at the end.

It's just,

Meaghan: yeah, yeah. Up that Butte, pilot Butte. Right. That, yeah, I was, I was for it to be finished at that point. I think it was out of outta water and somebody offered me like, you know, in typical organ fashion, like a double IPA and I love IPAs, but I was like, can I just have some water?

Deann: Yeah.

Meaghan: You just need pure hydration.

And the water up there [01:35:00] isn't potable like on at at, at the Butte. Oh, it was so hard.

Karey: Uh, I remember I was watching these guys 'cause I know the course, you know, or the majority of it, and have ridden that last part. And I, um, was watching them, you know, I was dot watching and I could just see them like slowly, like it was going so slow. And I'm like, come on, like you. And finally, I mean, I think I sent a text like right on the button, like, you know, okay, you're there, or whatever. But it was, oh, it was so

Deann: Yeah, you, you sent us,

Karey: they're.

Deann: you were like, you're at the finish. You did it. And we were like, no, we're not. We are still climbing up this stupid hill.

Karey: up. Oh my gosh. Such good times. You know, that's what makes the memories though. Well, Megan, we will be do watching you on the next races. I cannot wait. I hope everything goes well for all your [01:36:00] travels

Meaghan: Thank you.

Karey: gear and your legs and your mind and, and all that stuff.

Meaghan: You touched on like all the

Karey: oh,

Meaghan: things I said. You touched all the important things, the gear and the legs and the mind.

Karey: That's all you need,

Meaghan: Yeah. Very simple.

Karey: so where can people, I mean, obviously, you know, the, the, so, and the other thing I love about, um, the, the. Atlas Mountain and the Silk Road and, and all these that Nelson puts on is, um, there's such great coverage,

Meaghan: Yeah.

Karey: which I tru I really appreciate. It really makes the, the raises come to life and it, it's really a talent to do so, I think because these ultra races are very hard to

Meaghan: Mm-hmm.

Karey: and so we'll definitely be watching you. So for anybody who is not aware, you can go back and listen to podcasts from the, they do updates, um, on the Atlas Mount race, and they'll be doing the same thing for the other races. Um, they do highlights from the day, you know, a really good writeup with pictures of people in the field.

Not just the people at [01:37:00] the front, but like people from the whole way back. I mean, it's, it's really great to see. So we'll definitely be, um, tuning into that stuff. Um, but where else can people find you or hear about you or follow along?

Meaghan: For sure. So I'm on Instagram at Megan Hacken, um, and I have a website, megan hacken.com. And I've got some, um, yeah, some links to my books and a few blog posts that are very out of date, but, um, hopefully still enjoyable. Uh, I think those are the two places. Yeah.

Karey: That is great. Well, do you have anything else you wanna say, Megan?

Meaghan: it's been a real fun evening. Thanks for having me. Um, I still can't believe I don't remember to say hello in Spanish. I do know. I swear, like I said, it's a long day.

Deann: It's a o ola.

Meaghan: Ola

Karey: See, I can, all I can

Meaghan: ola.

Karey: is audios, so, oh, you're right Aliza, I didn't ask about your favorite snack. Okay. In general. In general. [01:38:00] So not just at, not just in Morocco, I'll, I'll ask two in Morocco, what was your favorite thing you found to snack on? And in general, what is your favorite snack that you like to bring on your rides?

Meaghan: My standard, um, is Snickers bars. Um, when it's hot. I like Twizzlers in Morocco. Um, there was this one brand of wafer like chocolate wafers, which aren't like my favorite thing in the world, but I like dipping them in coffee and they just pack up easily. I think they're called tonk or something, but they've got a lot of good wafer flavors.

Um, like, you know. Um, strawberry cheesecake and stuff and I, I enjoyed those quite a bit.

Karey: sounds delicious.

Meaghan: Yeah, it's not glamorous, but like the Moroccan snacks, most of them are like packaged in probably like a hundred calorie servings, which is kind of small. you know, thinking you, that's like the size of a gel, so you end up just buying like tons of things and it's like, do I just grab a bit of everything or do I like, stick with a couple things?

I know. And like, and I was glad I got to tour so I could try out some more [01:39:00] things beforehand. Uh, there was still times like where I, I was like, I don't know what to get right now. And I think I like some of the smaller to stores. I think I grabbed stuff that was like expired and it tasted just like chalk, like dust.

It was awful. Like, well I can't waste this. I need to eat it. But, um, so there was some good experimentation and some not so good experimentation.

Karey: very nice.

Deann: I.

Karey: So the next time you go there, then you'll, you'll know what wafers to avoid.

Meaghan: Yes.

Karey: my gosh. Well that's super awesome. Well, thank you so much again. It's been such a

Meaghan: Thanks for having me.

Karey: Deanne and Aliza for joining. Appreciate you all, . until next time, signing out.