S2: EP 3: The art of Finding Yourself out there with Karin Pocock

Karey sits down with outdoor adventurer and bikepack racer, Karin Pocock.  They chat about recent Type 2 Fun adventures including the Grand Loop, Revisiting the AZT 300 and most recently the Oregon Timber Trail.  Karin talks about what it means to her to be able to be outdoors pushing herself, even after doctors said that she wouldn't be able to use her foot in active sports again.  Karin also shares her stoke for the upcoming Colorado Trail Race which is happening right now with the grand depart taking place on Sunday, August 11. 

Karin Pocock IG

Colorado Trail Race

Oregon Timber Trail

Bikepacking the Triple Crown

Trackleaders for the CTR

Transcript

Karey:[00:00:00] Welcome everybody to the Art of Type 2 Fun podcast. I am excited for our guests today. We have Karen Pocock here, um, who is just super badass adventure extraordinaire. Um, Um, originally Canadian, immigrated to the U S about nine years ago and currently calls Crested Butte, Colorado home. Um, she's 44 years young and enjoys rock climbing, skiing, and mountaineering, um, since her early twenties.

So you've been doing it for a while. Um, that's super awesome. Um, you currently guide. As for a few different companies, and then also for yourself, um, and also works as an adjunct, what's the word I'm looking for

Karin: Faculty. Thanks.

Karey:Words are hard. Um, for Colorado Mountain College. And we're here today talking about mostly. Bikepacking stuff, but I can't wait to [00:01:00] hear about a few other things in your life. Um, and so you've been bikepacking since 2018 and then bikepack racing since 2021 and coming up, which is the biggest reason why we're doing this right around this time, right before next week is, uh, you'll be doing your fourth racing, your fourth trail mountain bike race.

So welcome Karen.

Karin: Happy to be here.

Karey:is there anything I missed?

Karin: Yeah, I think that totally works out. It's a blend of being a guide in the mountains and riding my bike as much as I can through them when I'm not working. So,

Karey:that's

Karin: yeah.

Karey:good that you don't get sick of them when you're, hopefully not, too much when you're working versus, you know, you still love to be out there when you're adventuring, so.

Karin: Oh, yeah. It's super good out there.

Karey:that's

Karin: Nice. Thanks.

Karey:All right. So, um, let's get into it a little bit. I, so I came across your name when, um, just [00:02:00] looking at like Colorado trails stuff.

Karin: Yep.

Karey:I recently released an episode, , so my friend Aliza and I, we rode, we didn't race it, but we rode the Colorado trail, um, in 2021. um, so we just kind of had in. know, celebration of the race it's about to have. And we had like a little, um, go down memory lane a couple of weeks ago. And so that was a lot of fun.

And so I was like looking at the track leaders and then I was like, Oh, Karen's racing again. And then I'd seen her name before. Um, so I was like, I got to talk to you. I guess let's, let's just talk about your history. Cause you have a broad history of being in outdoors.

Like, have you even growing up? Were you in the outdoors? Like, how did you come into what you do now?

Karin: Yeah, um, I did not get parents who were outdoorsy. Um, they were woodsy. They were car campy type people. Um, but I grew up as a, like, on stage musical theatre kid and jumping horses and doing, like, cross country running. [00:03:00] Like, very Suburban, um, suburban big city growing up outside Vancouver, uh, kind of sports.

But I got put into outdoor education to help make me more well rounded cause I was at quite an academic school. And it was thought that anyone in our class pretty much wouldn't be able to figure it out if we were thrown into the woods. Uh, so I was, I was in outdoor education from grade eight onwards and it just, uh, it kind of took hold, like.

Being in the mountains, uh, being with less, which still fits today with bike pack racing, uh, getting an opportunity to back country ski rather than front country ski, because my parents weren't skiers. So I kind of didn't know the difference, didn't know what I was missing, but the ski areas. Um, and then to go rock climbing and that just, it kind of changed the trajectory of my life.

Thank you, Canadian public school, outdoor education. Um,

Karey:I'm like, wow, you had all those opportunities through.

Karin: Yeah, for, for basically [00:04:00] free. Um, yeah. And I wouldn't, I had grown up on bikes. I'd grown up, um, You like goofing off in bike parks and skate parks. You shouldn't take your bike into and just any piece of dirt But hadn't had sort of abandoned it for professional climbing and skiing work And then was actually told a number of years ago in 2018.

I wouldn't be able to walk effectively ever again Um, that I had run out of cartilage in a foot in an important joint that can't be medically replaced yet. And that it would be best if I just stopped doing what I was doing and get a knee wheelie. Um, for a period of time. And I convinced my surgeon at the time that a bicycle was a pretty close substitute for a wheelchair.

And kind of poured all the energy I had, cause maybe I'm a little bit of it. Spas, um, pulled, poured all that energy into cycling and suddenly it was like, well, if I can ride 30 miles, I can probably ride 50 and if [00:05:00] I can ride 50, I can probably ride 80 and then it just, and then when COVID hit, there was time and inclination to where it's loading up a bike and Understanding it better than maybe the little bits of bikepacking I had done in 2018 and 2019 and

Karey:Well,

Karin: it all suddenly I Was healing better and still able to guide and now had this new sport in my life

Karey:that's 

Karin: yeah,

yeah, 

Karey:during COVID, then did you do any epic adventures? I mean, it also because we, we actually considered doing the Colorado trail, like on the tail end of COVID, like in 2020, and I ended up getting injured anyway. Um, and things were just about opening up and we're like, ah, but you go through all these small towns.

So did you do any, or were they pretty close to home?

Karin: I a lot of them are pretty close to home. Um, we kind of weren't as locked down as some places I was living in Crested Butte at the time. Uh, so they [00:06:00] started as things like riding from Crested Butte to Aspen, um, and back, um, or Crested Butte to Aspen to whatever I could connect to, to just start playing add on with these loops.

Um, and then the other one was heading over towards the Grand Loop, which I got to. At least race part of this year and getting on the taboo watch trail, uh, which is the section from, uh, sort of between nuclear and Montrose, it switches to the taboo watch and then goes to grand junction that just worked out because it was so quiet.

It wasn't, it wasn't anything anyone was trying to go do. So no one was really watching to see if you were recreating or breaking rules or anything. And we were about as, as distanced from humans as possible because there's really no one. No one else out there. So that

Karey:Yeah.

Karin: of a newer adventure, a little bit off season, lots of snow and deadfall, still on it.

But mostly close to home, like Colorado, Colorado Utah borderlands.

Karey:Gotcha.

Karin: there's hundreds of miles to [00:07:00] explore.

Karey:Oh my gosh. Adventure is dream.

Karin: Yep.

Karey:Oh, that sounds so awesome. I mean, I totally agree. Being out in the wilderness is like, it's like the best place to go when there's a pandemic going on.

Karin: Yeah.

Karey:anybody. I mean, people would say maybe like the risk of, , you know, well, what about, what if you get injured and you end up in the hospital and then it's more, you know, I, I do get that, but, you know, we're trying

Karin: Yeah, and

Karey:good stuff. So

Karin: for me, that period of time, like it was a bit of a turning point. I had been told a lot of, I mean, I was 38 years old and told that my career was basically going to end and, and what I like to do for life was going to change. And. Two years into being more bike focused, my repeat scans were showing that I was regrowing cartilage, even though in theory, that's not supposed to happen too much.

And this healing process was occurring. And so the 2020 summer for me was a really positive summer rather than a horrible summer, because it was getting to realize I might be able to continue to use my [00:08:00] body. I just had to shift the mindset of having been a runner as my fitness on the side. Having been a climber skier for work and still just using that as as a way to stay fit and Realizing that cycling is it gives you mobility into you probably be 80 and still bikepacking if you want it to be

Karey:Totally. Yeah. Was there anything, was it just like all the things you'd been doing with your body that led to this thing? Or is it like generative, like degeneration or like,

Karin: That's I

Karey:Like,

Karin: mean a lot of the climbing I engaged in for years was like climbing splitter cracks like a Sharp cut crack into rock and it involves a lot of twisting force on the joint. And I think when you couple that with growing up as a runner, I worked for outward bound for a lot of years when I was a younger guide, which is a lot of weight on the body, just kind of smashing, just taking a hammer to my cartilage for as many decades as I could.

Uh, [00:09:00] and, and I think for a lot of people, we do that and then we get out of it. We quit, we find an office job. And so. Yeah, the bikepack midlife crisis, if I can call it that, has been a real turn into feeling like, like I have youthful joints again.

Karey:Yeah.

Karin: So.

Karey:so awesome. And to be able to find that, cause some people, you know, they just don't find that outlet or that way to heal. Well, I think both mentally helps with it a lot too. And then that physical part. And when you see that happening, it's like, I can do this and really enjoy it. It's very powerful. Um, so I'm happy for you that you were able to find that. 

Karin: Yeah, it's, it's not lost on me when I look at race lineups that I'm, I'm the master's female crowd, like that there's only so many women In their mid forties doing this, and I feel like it's, it's been a real gift to be able to continue to smash hard outside.

Karey:yeah, seriously, . I mean, I wish I were, [00:10:00] I mean, I still am smashing hard and I'm in my, I mean, my early forties, but you know, our, our gal crew, um, we're all around the same age, you know, 40 between 40 and 45 and, um, all of us are still smashing hard, but some of us more than others. Cause I, you know, Well, as of a year ago, I got like the nine to five job or whatever, you know?

So I'm like, okay, I'm not smashing as much, but I'm still smashing hard.

Karin: Totally.

Karey:So I love it. It's very empowering. Like, and, and that's the thing I think, especially when I was like noticing you and your racing career and stuff like that, and your writing career is like, um, you know, still getting out there and it just like, I'm like, yeah, more ladies, mean, we just need to be out there and like, cause it's also

Karin: Yeah.

Karey:women's, you know, like, Stuff, you know what I mean?

Like you learn with age , I think, I think I have much more mental fortitude than I did when I, I mean, I started bike packing when I was like in 2016, but I was

Karin: Yeah.

Karey:racing before that. And yeah, I was strong and I was super fit, but like the stuff I put myself through now is like, yeah, definitely. [00:11:00] With age and seasoned and

Karin: Yeah.

Karey:that whole

Karin: Suffering and your perspective on, on what suffering even is, I think is very different in this decade.

Karey:Oh yeah,

Karin: So.

Karey:So, so speaking of suffering, so you mentioned, , most recently you, um, have been on a couple of adventures. Uh, first the, the grand loop was before OTT. Is that correct?

Karin: It was, yeah, uh, it started on the 31st of May, so the May June crossover.

Karey:was there one before that this year?

Karin: I was out doing, um, an, I, we called it an ITT, but really we were touring the 300 course of the Arizona Trail, uh, for emotional reasons. So both my good friend Matt Annabelle and I. Had struggled on the 800 course last year. I had COVID the entire time.

Um, and I'd actually taken some down days, but not scratched. Like ask the race coordinator if I could disappear for [00:12:00] 36 to 48 hours. And so had had this like slow, grueling, almost solo effort. Um, and had also had like a profound fear of snakes, just like. Probably past rational. I tried to convince myself it was rational because they could kill you, but it was, I think it was jittery to the point of like, like a phobia.

And my good friend, Matt had been so struck by the heat. We had like triple digit weather. So it was really, really sick. And we both just needed to go like find the love with the Arizona trail because it's beautiful. So had a A four, just a little under four and a half day time on it this spring. Um, so not like crazy race pacing, but like we tried to move and just find the joy, which,

Karey:Oh,

Karin: which was found, it was not, there were any snakes that were out there.

We did not see, [00:13:00] and, um, it did hit the triple digits, but not nearly as much.

Karey:Oh

Karin: So

Karey:That's

Karin: no, it was,

Karey:I

Karin: was beautiful.

Karey:when you start thinking about the snakes, like, I mean, I don't think about them that much. In fact, I probably have gone past or ridden over, uh, Way more than I realized. Like whenever we're out on adventures, my boyfriend sees them all the time. And he'll be like, did you see that one?

And I'm like, no, he's like, you've literally peddled right past its head. Like, I mean, that's how like clueless I am. And I'm like, I would rather just be clueless. But when you start thinking about them, like every little twig and like branch.

Karin: And I had had, I had had snake encounters on pinions and pines last year. I had two substantial encounters on the 801, which was like a huge, huge, must've been crossed with a horse snake, just like coming at me, like quite a clip, like at least it was, it was in squiggle form, not cinnamon roll form. So it wasn't about to [00:14:00] strike, but that like, you're almost tagging them with your pedals and that's, It's like a little bit of a heart and throat moment,

Karey:Oh my gosh. That's so funny. Well, I'm glad you didn't have any on that on that 300

Karin: no.

Karey:excursion. Um, and then, okay. So then talk a little bit about the grand loop. What happened there? All

Karin: I have a crew of friends who tell me I need to go put myself in a germ bubble before races. I seem to have this proclivity for racing sick. Or managing to get sick right before a race and then racing sick. And so the grand loop fit with that. One of my last, uh, younger cousins to get married, got married the week before.

So I flew up to Vancouver, British Columbia to go to the big family, super spreader event and, uh, picked up something could have been COVID since that seems to be what I always get, but had some sort of nasty respiratory [00:15:00] illness that I thought, uh, to taper just enough to start the grand loop and I was feeling pretty fit for the grand loop and got into the first day, put down about a hundred and change miles that day, woke up the next day and was like, what have I done to myself?

Karey:Oh, no.

Karin: got another 45 miles in and like, I think emotionally, I didn't have another sick race in me, which I felt actually felt I was giving myself a lot of shit for it. Like, I felt really badly for that. I'm gonna qualify. I raced the 800 with COVID. I should be able to do this, but it was such a bad decision.

Like emotional hump. And then the stuff that was coming out of me was, I was taking pictures of these little shapes of chunks that were coming from like deep in my lungs, like look like little bits of bronchial shapes. And, and so a very good friend grabbed me, um, on highway one 28, uh, when it was probably getting to be like mid nineties and, [00:16:00] and then dropped me in Fruita and then another good friend.

Picked me up and drove me back around to Nucla and so I was just there to greet Folks at the at the end of the race and cheer folks on and that kind of thing

Karey:I

Karin: so

Karey:way to end a sad, withdrawal or, you know, that kind of

Karin: It

Karey:you

Karin: Yeah, it was it was definitely it was a hit I had flown into state to ride I was working in Oregon all spring for Timberline Mountain Guides on Mount Hood and I had flown in You From, like, flown to Redmond, or flown from Redmond to Denver, Denver to Junction, rented a car, set up for all of this, to make it a small distance, and then scratch.

So, it was an expensive scratch.

Karey:definitely. Yeah. That's horrible. I mean, but at least you, I mean, you still give it a try. That's, I mean, that's all you can do. And then, you know, sometimes those things just happen and definitely it's like, I think it's hard. Like you were saying, like when you did, um, like the 800 with COVID. So we, I had a somewhat [00:17:00] similar where, uh, my boyfriend and I were doing right across Arizona, which is, uh, across Arizona gravel route.

Yeah. And we made it to the halfway point, so it's like 600 and something miles. Um, and that point in the middle is hard anyway, because it's so close, like we're in Phoenix. So it's so close to Phoenix, right? So people like often like half the field drops at Flagstaff so we, well, we actually didn't make it quite to Flagstaff. We made it to Williams, but that whole day and the day before I like Could not eat, could not, whatever. And I'm like, let's say something's wrong. Like, it's not just like altitude or it's not just like heat or, anyway, ended up going to the urgent care in Williams.

Cause I couldn't keep anything down and including water, like electrolytes, like nothing. Um, and like I had had probably like. five Pringle chips in like the 70 miles that it took to get to Williams. And, um, they're like, yeah, you have COVID. And I was like, well, you know, at least, at least there's like a reason that I'm feeling this way, [00:18:00] but it was also like kind of hard.

Like we were just like, okay, we gotta, we gotta pull the plug. And

Karin: Yeah,

Karey:know, but that decision is hard because. There's like, I think in all of us that are used to doing these like super hard things, it's like, I can keep going and it doesn't matter. You know, I'll just tough it out or whatever. And

Karin: totally.

Karey:you have to pull the plug, it's really hard.

Karin: It's painful. It's, I think it's important to To know like where that line is and know that it's, it's personal and it's fine if you keep racing when people tell you, you shouldn't, and it's fine when you bail, when people tell you, you should keep racing and just

Karey:Totally.

Karin: anything for myself on the grand loop, I had a moment where I was like, Oh no, this is, this is the thing, this is the right call and this doesn't make me less of a crusher or like, you don't have to define yourself by it, but it's, It's still, it hurts and you have to remember which, like, remember the brilliance of whatever part of that ride you were on and what you were doing.

Like the night [00:19:00] before I met so many people and had so many quality conversations, like literally the essence of why I like bike pack racing, which is you're racing and yet you just spent 30 miles talking to someone like, because your pace was the same. And you're like, Hey, you want to bullshit for a while?

Karey:Yep.

Karin: and. You just learn, like, so many things about other humans that maybe you would have never had that conversation without this circumstance. So,

Karey:that's so great. I love it.

Karin: yeah.

Karey:it. then the other thing that you've done recently, which I was so excited to see was that you did the organ to portrayal.

Karin: Oh, geez, yes, I pushed my bike through the bushes where the Oregon Timber Trail should exist. Including where it was so overgrown, someone had put a fresh barbed wire fence across the trail, not even knowing there was a trail. And I looked back and forth for quite a while and was like, nope, there's no gate.

No one has any sense there's a trail here. I will just have to find a lowest, and I'm like, [00:20:00] I'm 5'7 on a super tall day. Um, and this is a fully freshly strung, taut barbed wire fence that's like boob height. And I'm looking at my bike. And I'm looking at his fence and I'm like, do I just strip the bike down completely?

I'm like, huck it and figure it out. And finally found a log, an old logged stump and just like heaved the bike over and then delicately tried not to like rip myself. And you'd think that was the only one, but I found another one later with no gate, but it was old and floppy. And I like mail slotted my bike through.

So,

Karey:Oh, my gosh.

Karin: the art,

Karey:area was what area was

Karin: this,

Karey:new?

Karin: the fresh one was before you, actually I have to, it's day one, it is, uh, some of the higher points before you descend to the Chewacan River.

Karey:Okay.

Karin: it's kind of like mile [00:21:00] Sort of 60 to 75 zone, which I could probably pull some key names.

I was, at that point, I was just like, I'm just in burn forest and more burn forest. I don't know what this burn forest is called, but it's burn forest.

Karey:Oh, my gosh. So I can only imagine. I mean, we did it. What year? We actually split it up into two, two years. Cause again, we

Karin: Nice.

Karey:a race at that time. It was like right when, after it had been like, um, announced as like the full loop or whatever. Um, and so, but that first year, maybe 2018, I can't remember. Um, anyway. And so now though, so all of that stuff that is like, Totally burned was fine

Karin: Yeah. Yeah.

Karey:the course has changed just the landscaping of it and like, and actually the course itself has changed a little bit since we, um, we're on it because of all that burn. It's just been crazy [00:22:00] how different it is now,

Karin: Yeah.

Karey:is sad.

Yeah.

Karin: It, it was, and so I just like pulled it up. So it's like the moss pass to round pass, round mountain kind of zone. And it's still like, it's beautiful. It's like a, it's like a fire ecology lesson. You're like, Ooh, plants. It grew back. But those plants are pretty rough. Like it makes you want to be a single speeder, kind of rip your derailleur off level of non yielding and they're everywhere.

And so I was well past using any sort of bike nav and just using high res maps that I use for guiding work following the GPX track and being like, well, I'm on the line, this should work. Um,

Karey:That's so

Karin: so that was some slow, some slow miles. That was called running out of water, pushing your bike well into the night, continuing to go.

Because if you stopped in that heat, you were like, I do not, I really need to get to water before. I stop and, and that in some ways like led to being so close to the Chihuahcan the first night on the [00:23:00] race. Just because

Karey:Okay.

Karin: like, what else do I do? It's, it's 89 degrees in the dark. So, um,

Karey:Oh, my gosh. So going into this, did you have any sort of, well, first of all, For those who don't know the Oregon Timber Trail in its entirety goes from south to north or north to south, whichever way you're writing it, um, the state of Oregon. Um, and the actual race that you did this year, cause it has changed, like I said, it's changed a little bit.

How many miles did it cover?

Karin: So we had a 300 option. The 700 being a hair below 700, but basically the um, Yeah. The full course minus the way it used to start in Alturas. So this started down in near Lakeview, um, or 40 minutes out of Lakeview. So Southern Oregon, not California. Um, and then the 300 course finished in Oak Ridge, which seemed really classy cause that's like beautiful mountain bike destination.

And then the 700 course did go to Hood River.

Karey:Hood [00:24:00] River.

Karin: And I had been guiding on Mount hood all spring and am a Northwestern or by birth. It was like, I should, I should race this thing. Like just to feel the bones of this state, like to know it. And had looked at the trail for years. Um, when I started to get into bike packing, cause it was the grand trail closer to where I'm from, but it had always been disrupted by fires

Karey:Yep.

Karin: and different things.

And so this year was a year where. Minus that Northern California section, you could actually stay on sort of the official trail, uh, the, the most consistently start to finish, or at least so we thought until the wildfires that are currently burning started up. So I elected to race the 300 thinking I wouldn't have enough time off work to do the 700 and a little bit, I regret, um, not being part of the 700 crew.

Cause it's just such a gritty thing to go do. But as I rolled into the finish of the 300 that the electrical [00:25:00] storm I rolled into town in was the one that lit Oregon on fire and, and basically made it. So no one could ride the trail. The rest of the way consistently like ride arounds were getting put in by the race coordinator as the race was going on.

So

Karey:Yeah.

Karin: that day was like the end of non burning Oregon for the year. And it's still on fire. It's so, it's so sad. Cause so much of what got talked about at the. Camp out night the night before and in the morning was how this like kind of a little forgotten trail, which is so funny to think about a 700 mile trail, like it's a grand trail, but it, it gets very little publicity.

It gets very little trails association care. It could use volunteer saw crews for the next decade to help it exist. And it runs through a beautiful part of the country. It just, Just doesn't get the love to stay kind of a trail., The thought with this year's race was like, we could start to, to like [00:26:00] talk about it more and Chip the race coordinator was like everyone, like just let people know it exists.

Like, thank you all 20 of you for showing up, which is such a tiny, a tiny race. Um, and now just to see the fire devastation, I think we're gonna be. A few years out on anyone really getting in there and riding it again in any consistent way.

Karey:Yeah. I mean, and it has been hard, like, I think what's crazy is , leading up to when it was. Connected as a whole. So let's say like the 2017 to 2018 years, like a lot of those fires. I mean, yes, some of it had been burned, like, you know, Ben has had its fires and like, there'd been, you know, some stuff like that throughout the years, but nothing like really, really, really recently and like super catastrophic.

And I feel like just right after it got like cleared and it was like pretty writable, like the whole thing at writable. Um, and you know, that was in quotes.

Karin: Totally.

Karey:As bright as it could be. Um, like then [00:27:00] these massive fires have been happening. Um, and

Karin: Yeah.

Karey:know, this was the one year that, you know, everything was like looking. In good enough shape again, to like, be able to ride the majority of it as its original form. And, you know, but then it's just like, again, we're dealing with all these fires. So

Karin: Yeah.

Karey:hopefully, hopefully more work can be done to it. You know, I know it's something that they've struggled with when the 2nd year that we did it, we actually, Oregon Timber Trail Alliance hosts. So for all of you in the Pacific Northwest, like pay attention to this, but, um, they, they host. These trail steward, weekends or like these, um, events where you go and you camp out and for two days, two to three days, you go out and you basically hang out with people and then just break your back doing a bunch of trail work.

Karin: Totally.

Karey:so worth it. It is so worth it. So what we did actually was we went and helped out a day and a half. For a couple of days with one and then we left on the trail.

Karin: Nice.

Karey:such a rewarding experience. I mean, yes, we started dirty and [00:28:00] swerve from all the trail work, but it was so awesome because then we went and rode the trail that we had just

Karin: Yeah.

Karey:you

Karin: It's just so good. Mm

Karey:it's so good.

Um, so y'all get out there and help. It's such a beautiful, it's, and it is like, if anybody ever has a chance to race it or write it, just write it. Like even in sections, it is

Karin: hmm.

Karey:way to see Oregon. Like I, so,

Karin: Totally.

Karey:lived in Portland for. 10 years in Eugene, Oregon for like five years before that.

Um, so that's where I considered home before I moved here. And so, and I moved here to Phoenix in 2019. So it was the last hurrah that I did in Oregon before I left. And it was, I wouldn't have changed a thing. Like it was, it was the best way to celebrate the country there. And just like the beauty that is

Karin: Totally.

Karey:Northwest is. But what was your, I mean, besides the, um, the fence incident, like, was [00:29:00] it harder than you expected? Was it easier? Like, what were your, some of your low points, high points,

Karin: I

Karey:Yes.

Karin: was actually really special. Like I knew I was coming into mostly onsite this trail. Like I, I maybe knew 20 miles of it from some loops around bend. Cause I was living in bend when I wasn't working on Mount hood.

And the bend trails are, like, chill, smooth, low, you get excited if there's a rock. And I didn't necessarily think everything was going to be like that in Oregon, but I was like, well, you know, like the vert per every hundred miles is less than the CT or the AZT, so this can only be so much. And then you find yourself, um.

You find yourself like bushwhacking your way [00:30:00] through. And also I don't think I ever appreciated how much basalt is in Oregon. Like the, the rock we talk about on the AZT, when people talk about like getting Just like rattled till their teeth want to fall out up by Mormon Lake and like some of these zones Where it's just like chunk and chunk and chunk like where you get asked why you could possibly ride a hardtail Oregon's full of that Only the difference is it then had three foot high cheatgrass on top of it And I didn't quite understand what cheatgrass was.

I was like, oh, look, it's pretty golden. Like it's like wheat But it's not it's like little toothpick bullets that invade every part of you, including your skin and definitely your bike shoes. And I hadn't even thought to bring gaiters. I was like, we're not in Arizona. There's nothing spiky here. And I remember just taking these like water breaks where I'm picking Like, toothpick bullets out.

Like, a hundred of them, only to have them all go back. Like, [00:31:00] throw your socks out at the end of the trip, kind of situation. And, you kind of can't get ahead of it, because you can switch your socks, and then you're just gonna destroy another pair. Then, I remember, like, Days after this trip, after my shoes had gone through like industrial washing machines, like still pulling these little bullets out.

So that was, that was more suffering than I anticipated. Um, the bugs, which I, I knew I was, I was like, I'm from the Northwest. I know the bugs are bad, but so much of the Bend zone and the Lakeview zone. Was like hot and dry. And then you get up to where it's just a little cooler, like getting into the cascade crest and it goes from fine to like nightmarish horror movie, swarming.

Like can't open your mouth or a hundred of them end up inside your mouth. Like what have, what has happened? Like you actually see images of yourself, like lying there dying by [00:32:00] mosquito bites on the ground as like thousands prey on you. And you're like, no, that doesn't really happen. But it sort of reminded me of like bad insect B rated horror movies of the eighties where people would be like eaten by ants or.

Wasps or what have you and so there was a section by Summit Lake That was like that and I remember talking to another racer in Oak Ridge afterwards And he just like gave me this look it's like you and I both know what we're talking about so the like

Karey:you literally can't comprehend unless you've been in there.

Karin: Yeah

Karey:like, yeah.

Karin: And there's no option. I mean, it was well into the like 80 plus degree range, so you can coat yourself in rain gear, but you're probably not going to puddle your bike anymore because you're drowning inside your clothes. Um, and so between like the cheatgrass and the trail being gone and the slow miles and the heinous bugs and the fact that it was like pretty close to 100 degrees a lot of days of when you add Oak Ridge humidity and that temperature.

Like there's not enough salt tabs in [00:33:00] the world to get you through the day. You're just sort of like, I hope I don't cramp too much as opposed to I hope I don't cramp. And, um, it all just kind of coupled into this amazing, comical, excellent thrasher experience of like, what an underrated trail in terms of like the hard person bike back racing.

It's amazing. Like we always championed like the CTR and the AZTR and it's like. The Oregon Timber Trail kicked me in the face, like, about a hundred times,

Karey:totally.

Karin: so, I'm like, so looking forward to the CT, like,

Karey:least, you know, what to expect and like, you're, you know, hopefully not going to be going over barbed wire fences and

Karin: yeah,

Karey:all No, we did. We, uh, when we were out there on the OTT, there were a couple of guys that were out there at the same time as us trying to like, really like, you know, ITT it or whatever. And, [00:34:00] um, we asked them, both of them had done the Colorado trail before and both of them were like, that the Colorado trail is hard, but they're like, this is like the beast of beasts. They're like, there's no words to describe right now.

Karin: totally, yeah,

Karey:so

Karin: it's, it's, but it's a wonderful, it's a wonderful experience that's like hard in a, in a different way, and I think that so much of what. And maybe not everyone, but certainly for me, like what I gravitate towards with the bike packing is, um, that you are going to find yourself in a situation where you desperately want to press the stop button and there's absolutely no way to do it.

And the way is like through, like you just have to go probably because you're going to run out of water or you already have, or you're going to run out of food or you're just, there's just no way out. Like you have to continue. That's when you get to know parts of yourself you wouldn't otherwise know, it's like [00:35:00] It's, I think in some ways there's no different than, you can't really like train for what it's going to feel like 20 hours into a day until you actually go get yourself 20 hours into a day.

It's always a conundrum of bikepack psychological training. Um, you don't know who you're going to be when the swarms of mosquitoes

Karey:Totally.

Karin: until you're living it. And, and then you get to be on the other side of it and you're never the person you were on the front end ever again. And that's really special.

So.

Karey:it is. I mean, it's why I do it too. It's, you know. Oh, it's so good. That experience is so good. So, okay. So you got through that. Big mental fortitude builder. And then you are getting ready to race the Colorado trail race, which is coming up week. Let's see.

Karin: Yeah, it's

Karey:the start date is the 11th,

Karin: Yeah.

Karey:Oh my gosh. How are you feeling about it? Like, tell me.

Karin: Um,

Karey:Tell me

Karin: I, I, in this moment today, [00:36:00] after like a nice soft pedal with a loaded bike, feeling good, I've had some rest. I'm like, Feeling pretty good. I, I got quite a bad Achilles injury this May. Um, from work we did, uh, uh, I was working on Mount Jefferson. We had two people get injured out of three and ended up carrying one of like physically piggybacking one of them out of the mountains

Karey:Mm-Hmm?

Karin: carrying all the mountaineering packs, which like three packs at 55 to 60 pounds a piece.

Is pretty good. Like probably more than carrying another human, depending on the size of the human. So myself and the other guide, we, uh, we put some like wear and tear on our bodies and in classic Achilles does not like when it's suddenly loaded more than it has been. Mine got really angry. And then I chose to ignore them for a few days, like a week maybe of work.

And then finally it was like, okay, there's a problem. And I've been kind of like limping that injury through this season, which is not And generally my [00:37:00] style, I try and just go hardcore rest, recover, come back to it, but work and life life desires haven't allowed for that. So I was starting to stress that that kid crop up, but it actually seems like cycling is the cycling is my answer to everything.

I could have a t shirt that just says cycling is the answer. Um, so as long as I stay off the pedestrian travel modes, um, it seems like pretty good. So.

Karey:Okay.

Karin: Feeling fit, feeling like missed a little bit of training due to injury rehab at times. Um, built a new bike up this year that I didn't think I was going to race the CT.

I actually built it to be my tour divide rig for next year. Like built a steeper

head tube angle, lighter bike, and then was so enamored. I was like, I must go smash this bike around on my local trails, which has led to me thinking, Oh, But I could probably ride this on the Colorado Trail, so taking a chance, riding [00:38:00] a, a steeper angled, shorter travel, different geared.

Bicycle for the first time in a race. And that's either,

Karey:is it hard tail.

Karin: yeah, it's, I have this addiction to Santa Cruz carbon chameleons that they don't make anymore. So I found a frame online and I built a second one cause that's my primary bike has been a more slack version of that. Built a second one just with, um, like a one 20 step cast fork on the front, which I think a lot of people would be like, you built an XC race bike, that's fine.

And then, um, and then just like up to the chain ring size a bit. So pushing a slightly harder gear and put real light wheels on it. And I have never successfully made it to Durango on the CTR. I've done well in the Denver finish directions and I broke a rim, um, two years ago, going to Durango. And Coney summit, like pretty much annihilated an alloy rim [00:39:00] and didn't have a way to get a new wheel in Silverton and scratched 80 miles from the end, which was pretty heartbreaking that year.

And so I am now riding a very light wheel set in that same course direction, but I'm going to believe that, uh, that they're, that they're going to hold up and they're built, there's a company. Um, where I used to live in Cumberland, British Columbia called Noble that has made the wheels I've been riding on the last couple of years.

And this is like their new light wheel. So

Karey:Cool.

Karin: all the fingers and toes are crossed.

Karey:Strong wheel vibes.

Karin: Feeling good!

Karey:Sending out.

Karin: Trying to believe I'm only so big. So, I shouldn't be able to destroy or taco any more wheels. Um, but yeah, so new, new race rig, new bike that I've been bonding with, have triple crown aspirations for next year, so maybe it's just time to get on the triple crown bike and start, start seeing how it feels.

[00:40:00] So. Mm hmm. Mm hmm.

Karey:you know, the one year you had to scratch, but like, do you have any goals for this year that you're

Karin: I,

Karey:say out loud?

Karin: I, I do, I don't think, I used to think if you say it, you're like, Oh gosh, you're going to curse them. But I think it's the more I spend time around the community, like especially people like Alexandra, um, and Johnny Price and just like a lot of these really stoked folks, you realize like whether you send it or you don't.

Like everyone wants to support you forward. Like it's the least competitive thing you could ever think of. Even though we're. Race is in the name, even though it's there. Um, and that it's totally okay to put your intention out into the universe. So, um, last year I was on the tail end of the group that broke the women's record, uh, of six days and one hour.

So I was an hour below that. And so my goal this year had been to [00:41:00] like, continue to be a part of that club. Um, but also to keep personally taking blocks of time off my own time. Cause the first year I had raced the CT, I'd had a seven day and change finish. And then last year was right on the sixth day. I was like, I was pedaling so fast.

I'm like, I want five days in like a few minutes, but my tracker didn't ping. So it's, I think it says like six days and a few minutes, but right on that line. And so the hope would be to try and come in on the five and a half day mark

Karey:Cool.

Karin: this I think is doable and yet then when I start calculating desires, like sleeping, it starts to feel interesting.

So,

Karey:Well, that's what I was going to ask. Like, do you have a plan for that? Or is it just going to be like when you need it or just a little bit or like what's your plan

Karin: I

Karey:Yeah, 

Karin: like sleep health articles and sleep science. And one of the big things that I've read that resonates with me, which I think is so funny about [00:42:00] all things health, we just pick the one we like. It's not like any of them are right or I could like, Ooh, that fits for me.

I'll take that one. And so one of the things I've read about when you short sleep, but maybe not to the point of like, it's going to kill you. Like you're not sleeping only 45 minutes every 24 hours is that if you sleep at a regular time that even if you're only say getting three hours of sleep, doing it relatively regularly will make you feel better.

And so last year's CTR, I tried with my. 3. 25 to 4. 5 hour sleeps to time I'm like same part of the night within like about an hour and a half of when I would fall asleep. And that felt good. Like I could wake up from like a 3. 5 hour sleep and be like, I am a rock star, which could just be complete placebo effect in my head, but I'm going with it cause it worked.

So that's, my goal is to like not sleep a lot, but to try and be very consistent with like my timing of my sleep. So.

Karey:awesome.

Karin: The [00:43:00] only wedge that gets thrown in there is I have had a ton of success with sleeping during electrical storms and riding when it's dry. I don't know if there's a person out there that could say they keep their pace the same when they're getting just nuked by water.

Um, and those happen between like 4 PM and 9 PM. So I'll, I'll know within the first 24 hours, if I'm going full nocturnal. But I've packed, I've packed the batteries for it, so.

Karey:oh, that's great. Yeah. Well, that's what I was wondering is if you're going to time it with the, um, with the monsoons or with the rainstorms and stuff like that. Because, I mean, it definitely could make a huge difference. Like, the wetness versus the not and versus, you know, like daylight and sunlight, you know, like that kind of thing.

So.

Yeah, 

Karin: it's a hard one. Like I, I wrote over the high point of the trail last year with Hannah Simon in a pretty rowdy electrical storm. And one of the things I've realized from meeting a lot of people on passes is I care a lot about traffic. [00:44:00] Not being struck by lightning. And that might not be how everyone feels with their risk tolerance.

And so even just the stop, start hesitation that lightning creates, like that slowing you down, that feels like I could just be taking a nap. So, and I've had a lot of close calls with like guiding in the mountains where you're like, wow, we just almost got struck again. So I'm, I'm a little bit like feathered right now in between the classic, like midnight to three would be a lovely time to sleep or just sleep during storms.

But I know,

Karey:Yeah.

Karin: people out there basically doing 500 miles with no sleep and that I benefit from somewhere in that, like, probably the lightest would be like two and a half hours, but somewhere in that two and a half to four and a half hour window is like my brain is, it's like, Is happy I'm not giving myself a, a mental health disorder , so.

Karey:I mean, like, I don't, I don't understand how people do it. Um, and I haven't pushed myself to this [00:45:00] point. I haven't pushed myself to the point of like really having very minimal sleep. I think on right across Arizona, there were a couple of nights where I, where we had very minimal, um, just cause we got, well, we went to bed pretty early, but then I, I went to Again, I wasn't feeling that well.

And so, but it was like, I don't know, we'd slept maybe like three hours and the gal, there was one gal behind us. So I was writing a duo with my boyfriend, but then there was one gal who we'd passed on like a super sandy part and we hadn't seen her all day. This is after the first night. And, um, and I hear her.

Come into town because we were like sleeping, like right outside of the grocery store or whatever. And she comes into town at like, I don't know, it was like 1 30 in the morning and I hear her voice. And of course then I'm like, ah, I'm like, I can't sleep. So we just like get up and go, you know what I mean?

And it was, it was crazy to me though. How, um, Like I felt okay. Like, I mean, I definitely, there was a point in the afternoon the next day where I was like, you know, I could probably sleep some more like nap, you know, a little siesta, but like, I was [00:46:00] like, Oh, like, I think I could do a few days of this, you know, on that

Karin: Yeah.

Karey:never know unless you're like. Unless you experience it,

Karin: Totally.

Karey:and, and what works for you. And so I think it's really cool that you're like, recognizing like sleep is very important for you. You function better. And also, I mean, the CTE is so technical or it can be so technical. So to have the wherewithal is like, Super important.

Karin: It's, yeah. I, I near missed my first year on the CT in a way that I still am not sure I'm ever gonna get another one of those again. And I, and it was like I was riding at night, I was doing the sleep during the monsoon. I was shorting my sleep and I like hit my rear tire just on a slippery log. I think it was probably like one in the morning and it was one in the morning at the front of my day, not the back of my day.

Like I'd woken up at 10 45 at night or something like that. And so it should, in theory you're like, Oh, you're rested, but it's still dark and you're still groggy. It's not [00:47:00] like biorhythm time. And I. Flipped on my bike multiple times. Like I still, it was happening pretty fast, but I think for like full on, like Tomahawk in holding the bars, like over and over.

And you're like wondering, it's sort of like flipping a vehicle. You're like, Oh, my head hasn't been smashed in yet. That's good.

Karey:Oh

my 

Karin: Um, and I came to this super immediate whiplash stop when my bar hit a tree across the slope, like a, like 45, 50 degree kind of embankment in the San Juan's like definite. You're going down.

And I remember in that moment, well, first I was like, geez, do I still have a derailleur? Totally wrong priorities. And then I was like, wow, isn't that cool? I didn't smash my skull in or knock myself unconscious. And then the, you know, ensuing like, how do I get my damn bike back up onto the trail? But it was one of those moments of, had I even been 12 inches off in rotation, like that would have been probably like shoulder, clavicle, neck, neck.[00:48:00] 

Like someone can come find my blinking dot and it wasn't, it was my bar. And I just like had a moment of, holy shit, that happens fast. And that was literally just miss misjudging, like a sloped route or log on the trail.

Karey:totally.

Karin: So it does happen fast. And I do think keeping some mental faculties for the riding, uh, matters or, or just knowing when to like, get off the bike.

Be like, I can walk for two feet.

Karey:totally. Yeah. I

Karin: So.

Karey:important too. There's definitely, when you're just in there and going, it's like, even when you're not racing, it's just like the more you can ride the better and then it's, you know, you definitely do take risks. And also I think, um, I mean, I definitely went OTB. Maybe once or maybe twice when we were doing the CT and just like on a stupid steep part and it got, I just got too rowdy. You know what I mean? Like, cause you're living on your bike, you're spinning.

And 

Karin: Totally.

Karey:so comfortable.

Karin: Yeah.

Karey:then just all of a sudden one little brake check or [00:49:00] one little rock, you know, it was just like, you know, and I was okay, it was fine.

But, um, yeah, you do get pretty comfortable out there. So it's always going to be on your toes. So.

Karin: Yeah. Yeah.

Karey:have you been doing like training wise? I mean, I know like the OTT was just, I mean, that's a training, right? If you will, our training race, what else do you do to train for stuff like this?

Karin: So, and I, I sometimes wonder, and maybe this year will be the year I like consult professional coaching, not just like Garmin apps telling me that I've loaded my body a certain way. Um, but I'd say like the way I train is kind of twofold minus or including, depending on how you look at it, the job also being like this base cardio, like working in the mountains, just, um, Like I live, I work for money at zone two.

Um, but outside of that, the two primary things I trained you are like the psychological training of [00:50:00] being out doing something enough that like I've started to be uncomfortable doing it. Um, and then also feathering like high and low intensity, just like workout so that I know my heart and my legs.

Habits and those actually feel way more comfortable. You're like, oh, do I get to only ride for three hours and just push really hard? Oh, that seems so pleasant, but the psychological warfare I do with myself that I've been doing since my first CTR I think for me when it gets gritty makes the difference.

And so the way that I've Managed to do that is to try and both personally and through the use of like friends who will hold you accountable Get out the door. Even when you're tired. Like, I think most of us have probably experienced the high gravity that our houses have at four in the morning. When we tell ourselves we should get up and train and we're like, no.

Karey:Oh

Karin: Um, and that, that, that like stepping across that threshold, I [00:51:00] think changes you in your life, but also changes how you race if versus like, when you're like, I'm going to sleep in and let myself off the hook, like you, like, if you subscribe to that idea of like, you do something enough times, it's a habit.

Like, you can make not getting after it a habit. Um,

Karey:Oh,

Karin: a number of years ago, like right before my first CTR that I would train, I would get really tired and I'd hit that day, whatever day that was day four, day five, where you're like, I don't want to do anything. And that I was much more accountable to friends than myself, which maybe is a sad commentary on how we care about ourselves versus others.

So I would stack a bunch of plans that I absolutely knew I was unwilling to bail on. Like I just couldn't. I couldn't bear the heart of like telling that person that I hadn't seen that I was bailing on a big ride and I would stack big rides. And so this year I made plans with a good friend for right after I flew back from the Timber [00:52:00] Trail to go push my bike over Gray's Peak on I 70, like basically push it over a 14er and then leap it into a three day ride.

And I figured That, um, shortly after the race was probably good enough for like the real suck mental training and that then I'd go back to the physical training. And so we met up at like 7 o'clock at night at this 14er trailhead during like a horrible forecast monsoon weekend. So basically we were setting up for a minimum of three days of freezing.

Getting soaked, being scared of lightning and

Karey:my gosh.

Karin: mostly pushing our bikes and just proceeded to start marching our asses up in the dark, in this like fog bank, cold, wet shit, knowing that like, as long as we cleared this 14er with the bicycles, probably by like nine in the morning, we weren't going to have any lightning threats and just had built this route and did it with like, One of my best friends, so knew that like the accountability was [00:53:00] high.

Like I am not like this person has fought hard to have these days. I'm not bailing. And the clock doesn't end for like three, three and a half consecutive days. And so we just went out and I never gave enough appreciation to how blown out you get after a race. Like I'd had a couple of days, so I felt kind of like a superhero for the first couple hours.

And then, like, no superhero came. Nothing. Just, this is gonna, this is full suffering. And we did. We just got soaked and hammered and, like, carried bikes over things. Not even pushed. Just, like, this is bullshit. Cause it had been kind of a make up a route. Like, we hadn't vetted a lot of it. And then when we hit the CT, we had one section of the Colorado Trail.

And I had this moment of, this is the nicest pedaling we're going to see in three days. And it actually left me feeling really excited for the race because I was like, Oh, this feels good. I [00:54:00] can ride this, this trail. I'm not just like thrashing. So that like being willing without the race environment to kind of point yourself into the deep end, I think is, is a core part of like some.

Component of training before each race like it might not be the 80 percent of what I do that might just be like go do this Style of ride in this zone or go get this much vert today, but those like truly gritty Like I don't really want to be here But I'm being forced to be accountable and continue like that really does Does change you into that person you want to be who's gonna keep going So that's, that's been like, when I laugh about the bike packing as a midlife crisis, where you're like, well, I don't have enough money for a sports car.

And I like my significant other and my job. So I'm not sure what to change. So I'll just go do this crazy heinous shit, 

but it does serve this amazing purpose of like refreshing how you feel about life and making [00:55:00] you feel like there's purposefulness, even as you age, like a lot of the things I think maybe we're, we're seeking.

And that purposefulness is like, Personal development, like making yourself into a tougher, better, more patient version of yourself through suffering. 

Karey:Oh, I love it. I mean, that's, that's so well said. I just, I'm like, it makes me want to go out and adventure right now.

Karin: I mean, to me, like, that's the whole point. Like the cardiovascular and like body benefits are great, but the psychological benefit of how everything in life feels a little like easier than this shit you just put yourself through.

So.

Karey:I 

got this. 

Karin: Yeah. 

Karey:I 

mean, and 

Karin: Yeah!

Karey:we always are like, cause you know, we usually do at least like one shakedown ride before. But like, we were always saying like the worst, the shakedown ride is, then, you know, the rest is going to be, even the big ride

is 

going to 

Karin: Totally.

And it, [00:56:00] it is like, I mean, there's sort of the, like, and I don't know if you can totally gender it, because I think we all deal with, you know, like, being humans. It's challenging. But I think of how easy growing up as a, as As a woman who did a lot of stuff alone, how easy it is to be anxious, walking into a new situation or to be like, just physically scared.

Like I often feel physically unsafe. I'm like, I'm a solo blonde traveler. Um, and you go through these like gritty experiences often alone or, or with company, but you're still alone in your head with the suffering and you come out feeling like you have more, like. In the bank to, to take on the world, like whatever that means for each person, um,

Because you've dealt with something that pushed you that much So whatever is scary or uncomfortable isn't as scary and uncomfortable and that's

really special

Karey:totally.

Karin: so [00:57:00] Yeah,

Karey:the guys out there, yes, they get something out of it too. But I think as women in the world, it's very important to feel that empowerment that comes from the adventuring and it comes from pushing ourselves and being in that is really important.

It's, it's awesome to feel that afterwards

and 

more 

of us 

Karin: totally

Yeah, that's because it's still at a point where I can go ride home trails or like home trails being, you know, something in a hundred mile radius of home and run into people who are like trying to make sure I'm being careful, which I appreciate. Like, I think that's wonderful, but there's a very specific, like you're a solo woman, 

Karey:Yes. 

Karin: are you going to be okay doing this next thing?

And, and it is being said in a way that I don't think it would be said to a male counterpart and that.

Especially when it's just been, I've had it directly called out or I'm told I'm a solo female traveler. I'm like, I'm, I'm aware. Yes. I left my house this way. And, [00:58:00] um, it, it does make you realize that whether, whether we've chosen it or not in how we live, that we are still being, um, socially brought up to see being solo and a woman as an oddity.

And that, that means we may or may not have been prepared well in our lives to take these things on. And so this is a really cool community and experience to be out there learning these skills. Like bike pack racing is sort of like solo light because you're probably going to run into someone else who's part of the race.

Karey:Yeah,

Karin: Um, but you're doing it yourself, but it's like, there is a little buffer, like people know you're out there and they care and 

Karey:totally, 

Karin: that's, a really neat space to occupy when you're trying to grow into whoever you're trying to grow into. So

Karey:as a racer and, and all the things. Yeah. 

Karin: yeah, 

Karey:so well said. So we're kind of wrapping up on time, but,

um, 

Karin: yeah, [00:59:00] um,

Karey:Colorado trail that you'll bring into race or that you want to bring into this race?

Totally.

Karin: of the biggest things that I, it's sort of like a relearning cause I thought I knew it and then I totally blew it a few times is like. Realizing that like, it may say race, but like it is your ride, like you are out there doing a thing that is far too long for you to be racing another person, even if in your head you think you're racing another person.

Um, and that like you have to keep telling, or I have to keep telling myself that, like, if I'm going for a five and a half day goal pace, it's not about, Getting in front or behind of someone on day one or even day two, it's about pacing for that and that that will lead to where I want to be. And I've definitely blown it before where I get all excited and someone I know that I want to keep pace with like, oh, they're leaving.

This spot, I should leave too. And then you just get like plowed in a storm when you could have [01:00:00] taken a nap, or you skip a key water or food situation to stay what equates to like maybe 500 feet in front of somebody. And that's just like, it's like totally losing the big picture. So definitely remembering like to ride, ride your own ride, which I think is probably a good life lesson.

As a whole anyway, like don't compare yourself, just go do the thing and it'll all work out in the, in the, like the, the wash there. Um, another big thing, and this is like a very personal female thing, but, um, it's like. realizing women's bodies are different. Uh, a ton of us talk about ending up on our period, like menstruating while racing and

remembering, like how not to get UTIs.

I actually managed to UTI myself on every CTR for the first while I've only recently started to do better. Um, and so just like thinking about like what is needed for [01:01:00] hygiene, Like, what is the timing of this? How is this going to look? Um, but it's been like, it's that additional thing you don't think about until you realize like you're basically like swamp ass from the waist down between mud and cow poop and rain and now you're bleeding and you're like, Ah, so being careful with that, I would say like pads, not tampons.

It's like a really good strategy just to, just to maybe like over personal that. Um, but that is like, it's a really critical thing to consider out there. That's been like a huge, huge learning. 

Karey:That's 

Karin: Um, and then the other big one that has happened to me and I've seen it happen to other racers is as much as we're out, um, Like out there and we're in the back country, there's a technological piece we can't get around.

Like we need to have a dot tracking us. We probably, if you're me or compulsively listening to music nonstop, or if you're on the Oregon timber trail, you've got [01:02:00] your phone open, sucking batteries. You can stare at the GPS track. Um, and so like batteries and electronics matter and they can stop you just as easily as a need for sleep if you need to charge up and I've now had Several times on races where I black out everything, like my nav dies, my phone dies, my tracker dies, I've completely run out of juice.

And I, I find that like that has become as important as food in terms of just like measuring out and, and knowing the right amount, because it's also extremely heavy. Like if you get kind of neurotic with the kitchen scale before races and you start throwing cash batteries and like Phoenix light batteries on them, you're like, Oh, geez, that's like a two pound heavier bike than I planned on.

So just like there's, there's a planning piece that, you know, I think of it in that lens, cause some of the other packing and planning pieces seem to work well, or maybe [01:03:00] I know them better, but whatever your kind of crux in packing and planning is, like. There's so much value to diligent planning and like, maybe it's even part of what attracts people to these things is we do have to do all this prep.

And then we also have to let it go and just ride the ride. But like both of those are important. You can't just close on your back, hope like faith based bike pack race and you can't just plan and not have grit. It's it's finding the sweet spot 

Karey:All 

Karin: the two. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Karey:you know, if you are one of those people who are like the little weight differences and like, Oh, what can I save on? You know, and stuff like that. There are certain things that are like, you know, It does not matter. I mean, yes, you can try to find the lightest battery pack or the light, you know,

whatever, 

Karin: Yeah,

Karey:to have it because it can stop you

like, 

you 

Karin: yeah,

Karey:like you

said, 

more 

Karin: totally.

Karey:or whatever, it's just as important.

And so it's not worth

Karin: Yeah,

Karey:bit lighter [01:04:00] because you didn't want to bring that extra

big 

Karin: totally.

Karey:Oh

Karin: and I like remember at the end of the Utah Mixed Epic in back when 

we had one that was around a couple years ago around Moab. Um, I had totally blown out all my light batteries. But I had the tail ends of each of them, like they only had the low setting, which is usually when I swap them. So I was trying to ride the final 50 miles swapping out, like, low settings on my batteries before they completely destroyed themselves and died, like blacked out.

And I rode up onto this, like, this, like, swoop up that was going over a gas line, um, in the Navajo Rock section of trails near Moab that was, like, we were basically dropping onto Mag 7. And I swooped up, but I had almost no light, like we're talking very few lumens, like tail end of battery, cause it's all I had left and I didn't make it.

And then I cratered, like 10, I think it was close to 10 feet. Like I sort of like hit the gas line and then fell to [01:05:00] the ground and it was like a big metal kind of culvert style thing 

Karey:Yeah. 

Karin: okay. And I was okay. And I didn't land on like something spiky, but it was that moment of like. Nothing about this was wrong except I'm totally blind and it's dark.

And I've, I've completely miscalculated my supplies. And I think that's, you know, going, it's no different than calorie bonking. Like, I light bonked and didn't, didn't choose to stop.

Karey:I

love 

Karin: So, yeah, I'd 

I'd say that's the, like, uh, Spend enough time to know what you need and yeah, be, be greedy with like, okay, I'm a little hungrier than I wanted, but there are some things like, you know, in the same way, a bike doesn't roll without wheels.

Like darkness doesn't really work without lighting at speed. 

Karey:Yeah. Great tips. I love it. I hope all those things, like, it's all going to come together for you. I can just feel it.

Karin: here's hoping.

Karey:and all your expertise. Oh, it's going to be great. Um, all right. Well, so [01:06:00] wrapping up, what are, uh, three of your favorite, uh, or food or

whatever 

Karin: Totally.

Karey:I

always 

Karin: Yeah.

Yup. And I wonder sometimes if they change, but, um, I definitely like, don't seem to be able to get through one of these without Apple fritters. I think I actually now have a sense of like, which convenience stores have my favorite Apple fritters. I ate so many on the Arizona trail. I was at the point of like, Oh, the circle K and the Maverick, they're doing it.

Right. So like that really concentrated. Hefty load of sugar and fat, 

Is life changing for me. Um, that is, I like, I would say it's hard to race without a fritter. Um, I am definitely on the pizza slice program. I think a lot of people are cheese and bread. It's classic. It works. The fact that I have too much of a love for like Whole Foods pizza slices doesn't help because there aren't any races [01:07:00] going past them, but I will stock up for day one.

Karey:Oh, very

nice. 

Karin: So the the pizza slice, I think the pizza slice is winning over the frozen burrito for real food in my life right now.

Karey:Yeah,

Karin: And then, um, I, I'm not big on like the, I don't do a lot of the like tailwind or that kind of thing, but I do eat my weight in, in all forms of gummy candy, whether that's like Haribo gummies or whether it's like actual sport gummies.

Karey:Uh 

Karin: think the pro buyer ones, even though they're expensive and it's good to have a pro deal on. Um, there's something magical in them. I don't know what it is yet, but I believe in it. Um, that, that definitely like just sometimes you just need sugar, which I think is what people do as sport drinks. Um,

for me that the tactile gummy bear dying, it's death in my mouth is quite, it's quite important.

So some sort of mix of like fatty pastries, gummy bears, and cheesy bread kind of takes me.

Karey:so 

Karin: Takes me through. [01:08:00] I know. I'm like, I should go get my blood pressure

Karey:when you're 

Karin: looked at.

Karey:could you want? You know what I

mean? 

Karin: And, and I've tried to go like healthier and you, it's almost like your brain knows the caloric content of like each item. It's like, no, you're not, you're not nailing it.

Karey:Yeah. Oh, 

Karin: totally,

Karey:at least for a lot of people who are doing these ultra events, it's like your stomach. hold or doesn't want to hold a lot of food. So if you're trying to get all those calories with like healthier quote, unquote foods, it's going to take more substance.

And so it's like, okay, what can I get more calorie per mass than any other foods? And that's what it's going to come down to. And you know what? Your body is going to burn it and love you for it. So

Karin: totally. Yeah. The like garbage fire inside is very strong. So.

Karey:That's 

Karin: Yeah. But Yeah.

those are the main ones. And then sometimes just whatever's there.

Karey:[01:09:00] Exactly. Yeah. Well, those, those sound like some good treats. I'll tell you what most everybody that I've asked has said some sort of gummy, like the

gummy 

Karin: Yep. 

Karey:I've got like, you know, sour gummies, that's a winner. So we're doing something right.

Oh my 

Karin: Totally. 

Karey:awesome. Well, just wrapping up then let's, so you also mentioned, I mean, I don't want to, we won't go too much into it right now because we're running out of time, but, um, the goal is. The triple crown next year. Yes.

Karin: Yeah. Triple crown next to already budgeting for it.

Karey:Perfect. Oh my gosh. I can't wait to just follow along and maybe we'll even have you back. Hopefully we can have you back and talk all about that when the time comes. And it'll be, it'll be really fun to watch you, watch you do all those things. And it'll be fun tracking you this weekend. Oh my gosh. I can't believe it.

Karin: Totally. Oh yeah.

Karey:what is your, um, what's your like Instagram or where can people find you?

Karin: Oh, yeah. Well, strangely enough, I'm the only person with my name in the world. So [01:10:00] I usually works out as long as it's Karen with an I and P O cock. Um, so my Instagram is just my name. So is my Facebook. So is every Google hit that's ever existed. I should probably be more original, but I was like, 

Karey:Why 

Karin: only one.

So 

Karey:Exactly. 

Karin: And that's, that's the same with all my like work and guiding and that kind of thing.

Karey:Yeah. 

Karin: Yeah. 

Karey:Perfect. Yeah. So we'll be watching out for you there. Um, and you know, any updates that you post there and then also tracking you, you know, there's the track leaders to follow any follow the whole Colorado trail race. So people can tune in there. Um, We're super excited.

Anything else you want to add?

Karin: I mean, just, it's, it's great to get to chat like this and I do really hope like I, every year I look at the lineups and get excited if the women make it into the double digits in terms of total numbers. And I really hope that we'll see more of that. I don't think there's. [01:11:00] Any reason why that like there needs to be any more of either gender in this.

I actually think women are genetically designed for suffering better. That's why we're the ones who make babies. So, um, yeah, I hope to create more opportunity. Um, even through like guiding, like if I can start to run, like, here's how to get into bike packing as like a female and be very specific with it.

Like, I'd love to see

more women out there on the bike. And just in the mountains. 

Karey:And in 

Karin: It's beautiful.

Karey:the more the merrier.

Karin: Mm hmm.

Karey:Perfect. Well, thank you so much, Karen, for your time. Really appreciate it. I appreciate all the tips and we're excited to see you out there where I'll be cheering from afar.

Karin: Awesome. Thanks.

Karey:Thank you. Bye.