The Art of Resilience and Hope with Hannah Otto

Karey sits down with Pro MTB endurance racer, Hannah Otto to talk all things suffering, pushing yourself, and setting lofty goals.  Hannah recently set a new FKT on the Kokopelli trail on her second attempt and her journey through this goal was beautifully captured by Competitive Cyclist in a short documentary film, "Kokopelli Strong."  We get a glimpse behind the scenes and into Hannah's determined spirit as we chat about her adventures and racing.

Kokopelli FKT Stats:

• 137.38 miles
• 16,000 feet of elevation gain
• Hannah's Finishing Time: 11 hours 53 minutes and 30 seconds
• Previous FKT (women’s): 13 hours and 7 minutes and 58 seconds 
• Route
• Segment in general

Kokopelli Strong Film

Hannah's IG

Transcript

Hannah Otto: The Art of Resilience and Hope

[00:00:00] 

Karey: Alright, so welcome to the Art of Type 2 Fun Podcast. I am super excited today to have Hannah Otto on board and we're going to be talking about all things FKT, um, growing as an athlete, trying your hardest and trying again. I think that's super important that we're going to talk about today. So just a little bit about her. Um, well, actually first I should say welcome Hannah.

Hannah: Thanks for having me. 

Karey: Salt Lake right now, is that correct? Correct. Okay, perfect. Yeah, I grew up in southeastern Idaho, so we would go down to Salt Lake a lot. So, yeah, know the area very well. Um, great outdoors area. Let's see, Hannah has quite a background in athletics, stemming even back to, you know, starting to race when she was pretty young, and then in college had some other, not just biking, but swimming, cross country track, um, you've been in mountain bike, cyclocross, road racing, all of the above. You're currently a coach, that's correct, a cycling [00:01:00] coach?

Hannah: Correct. Yep.

Karey: Perfect. Um, so needless to say, you're a little bit competitive. Which I love. I love it. Love it. Um, so yeah. So with that, Hannah, give us a little bit about yourself.

Hannah: Yeah. I mean, , it's funny because I like to, you know, it's, it's true, but it also sounds like a joke. I kind of like to always say, you know, I've been in endurance sport for 19 years now, um, but I'm only 28. So the large majority of my life has definitely been, um, dominated or influenced by endurance sport.

Uh, you know, starting when I was nine years old, I started in the sport of triathlon, um, moved up the ranks there. Like you said, I went to college, uh, as a triathlete competed on the swim team, the cross country team, the track team, the cycling team, and sort of found this, this, this. You know, niche or love for or affinity for cycling.

Um, and it was when I was [00:02:00] 20 years old that I committed to that, committed to the mountain bike, um, you know, as opposed to all three sports of triathlon and yeah, it's like the journey just continues and evolves year over year. And, um, you know, Yeah, I'm just so grateful to be on this path because it's, it's so fun.

Karey: Oh, that's so awesome. What made you, did you always like the bike part best? Or like what made you choose the bike over swimming or running 

Hannah: yeah, it's a great question because I feel like it's, you know, I have a very distinct story for it. But, um, you know, I think that in order to kind of go down that path, you have to have the knack for it or the affinity for it. And, you know, You know, cycling always was definitely one of my strong suits in triathlon.

 But what I think was funny was because as a triathlete, because cycling was my strong suit, it was probably the thing I dedicated the least amount of time to. [00:03:00] Because as a triathlete, you're always trying to improve your weaknesses. Um, and you know, but I, I, along with ITU on road draft legal and non draft legal, Triathlon.

I also raced Xterra Triathlon, so off road triathlon, and that was a place where I really discovered, , the fact that I loved mountain biking, that I was pretty good at mountain biking, and then when I was 17 years old, I was recruited onto the Cliff Pro Team, um, for Xterra Triathlon. At the time, they had a triathlon team, and I competed Specifically for them in triathlon for two years, and after that they were discontinuing their triathlon program, and they sort of came to me and said, Look, you know, you're still so young, you know, you can continue on in your own capacity, you know, as a sponsored athlete, you know, whatever that looks like.

Or, you know, we're discontinuing the triathlon program, but we're [00:04:00] continuing the cycling mountain biking program. And you're still so young that if you want to kind of go all in on this cycling thing, we'll support you in that transition. And so, you know, at 19. As I was going into my junior year in college, I saw this opportunity to, well, when I'm done with college, I need to make a living.

And if I can make a living off of professional racing, that's a pretty incredible opportunity. And so this was a chance that I got to try that. And so I went all in on it.

Karey: Oh, that's cool. You know, not everybody, some of us come into the sport a little bit later, so we don't all have that, like, ability to make those decisions at a young age when you can really develop and, and

Hannah: Yes.

Karey: pathway. So what an awesome opportunity. That's so great.

Well, I mean, cycling's lucky to have you. You made a good choice.

Hannah: Thank you. I'm, I'm very grateful. I'm super grateful for that opportunity. And, you know, there's been so many twists and turns along the way. [00:05:00] Um, and I feel like it's given me a really unique story because, you know, from nine. To 20, essentially, I worked my way up through the ranks in triathlon to becoming a world champion.

And then around 20, I became, Cyclist and I found myself at the back of the pro field once again, and I then had the opportunity, let's call it a wonderful opportunity to once again, work my way through the ranks. And I think it's taught me a lot of patience and persistence and resilience. And while it may have been difficult at times, that's something that I think has definitely been.

A recurring theme in my career that I'm very grateful for because I think in this sport, like sometimes it really is whoever gives up last and you have to really be willing to just keep running into that brick wall until you make it through.

Karey: Totally. Totally. I was listening [00:06:00] to another podcast actually about the Western States running race, and somebody had quoted, I can't even remember who originally made the quote, but it was something like, um, that race is not about, , who is the fastest, it's who slows down last.

Hannah: Yeah. Yeah.

Karey: that, because it's like, who has that, Abilities that grit and determination just to like not stop yet.

You know what I

Hannah: Yeah,

Karey: And so that's yeah, that's

Hannah: yeah. It's not about avoiding setbacks. It's about persisting despite them.

Karey: Totally.

Hannah: That's something that, if you spend any time in sport or specifically these sports or endurance sports, you will learn at one point or another, it's just a matter of whether it's sooner in your career or later.

Karey: Totally totally. Oh, that's so awesome. So what brought you to Salt Lake?

Hannah: Um, yeah, so I grew up in Southern California in Pasadena. Um, and then when I was 18, I went to college in St. Charles, [00:07:00] Missouri. So by St. Louis, um, I met my now husband in college. And so when we were graduating, it was essentially like, well, where do we want to live? Where do we want to start our life?

And so we looked at all different kinds of mountains, towns, and we found ourselves here. So. Long story short, basically the mountains are what brought us to Salt Lake.

Karey: Well, yeah, like I was saying , when we started, it's, um, it's such a beautiful country there. It's just like, I mean, anything you could want between the winter and the summer times and such good training for all sorts of sports. So,

Hannah: Yeah, we, we love it here. And definitely that love has been. A motivating factor for the FKTs so far that I have been pursuing, you know, both of them have been in Utah and that's largely, you know, because of that love that we have, I have for the state that we live in and just like the gratitude that this is what we call our backyard.

Karey: Yeah. Oh [00:08:00] my gosh. How lucky. So speaking of that, let's move into a little bit of your FKT stuff. So recently, which we'll talk more about, um, you are the most recent and newest owner of the fastest known time for the Kokopelli trail, which is very exciting. Do you hold, now, do you also hold the 

Hannah: Um, the whole enchilada.

Karey: That's right. Yeah. And you had a video, another film, a short film on that one, right.

Hannah: Correct. Yep. That one was in 20, the end of 2022. Yep.

Karey: right. Okay. I can't believe it. Yeah, I can't believe it's like it's been that long. Time flies. so, okay, so that one now, did you try a couple times for that one 

Hannah: one I did on the first try, um, but that one is, you know, I, there's still so many things that can go wrong and that I think, um, it's funny. I feel like I'm stumbling over this question because I was going to start at first and say, but that one [00:09:00] is. Much shorter. And so in many ways it's, you know, like I was able to pre ride it, um, you know, five or six times and I knew that course a lot better.

And so it feels that like my response was going to be, you can control a lot more with that, but actually I think you maybe can't. And that was extremely, you know, serendipitous. Uh, a lot of planning went into that, that We were able to get it on the first one because

Karey: Mm-Hmm.

Hannah: that is one it is such a rugged terrain and so hard on the body and equipment that personally I feel like to do that trail fast as fast as you can, um, to not have an issue mechanical or body wise is actually pretty, um, I'm really avoiding using the word lucky because a lot of planning goes into it.

But with anything there's, you know, luck and planning. So yeah, but we did get that one in one try and we were, we were pretty [00:10:00] stoked on that.

Karey: I mean, that's super rad. So if anybody listening, if you haven't seen that short film, does it have a title

Hannah: I think, um, it's on the competitive cyclist YouTube channel and I think it's just called the whole enchilada FKT.

Karey: That's right. Yeah. Yeah. So very inspirational. It was really awesome to watch. I mean, I've, I've ridden that trail only, only I think a couple times the whole thing, you know, going clear up and on down. Um, but, you know, cause usually the snow doesn't cooperate, or the weather doesn't cooperate. Um, but I mean, just watching it after experiencing that trail is just that you, you know, can push yourself like that and go that fast. And like, yeah, like you said, like the, everything went as well as it could have, or, well, you know, there's no like crazy mechanicals or crazy setbacks with your body and stuff like that.

So it's, that's really, really awesome. then your latest, um, for the Kokopelli trail. So can you tell us a little bit about the Kokopelli trail? Because some people don't even know about it.

Hannah: Yeah. [00:11:00] Um, so like you said, you know, the whole enchilada FKT, um, you know, you love that trail. I love that trail. That's my favorite trail in the world. And so that's what inspired that to be the first FKT. Um, and obviously Plenty of people have ridden it and so there were, you know, some times to go after but it wasn't a well known Established route yet.

And so that was our goal with that one is just that love for the trail like that trail in particular was Was and is a place that my husband and I, you know, go and ride Just for training, but also for fun. Like, I hope you can hear my voice, like this passion for that place. Just love it so much. And so that's what inspired that.

Um, and it was received so well. Um, the whole film, it really felt like other people. Experience that passion for that place as well. And then the film was just received so well, and we were so grateful. And because [00:12:00] of that, you know, competitive cyclist at the end of 2022, at the beginning of 2023, we're like, okay, that went well.

We'd love to do another one, you know, tell us what. You kind of want to do like, what are you thinking? And so I had this opportunity to sort of look at the maps and be like, where do I want to go? What do I want to do? Um, and I had all, you know, all different kinds of ideas and adventures and you know, do I want to go out of state or out of country or what?

And for some reason, despite all of these things, I kept coming back to the Kokopelli. It just felt like it was calling me. Like I just had, All of these lists, and no matter what I did, I always found myself researching this one trail. It's like, okay, this is clearly calling me. And I think it's because the Kokopelli really captures so many things.

It captures a grand diversity of terrain. Um, it, Stretches, in [00:13:00] my opinion, anybody's limits because of that diversity. There's, you're going to have strengths and weaknesses out there. And then for me personally, it was really at what I felt like was the periphery of my limits. I felt like it would take me just to that place where, you know, you talk about like just manageable goals.

When I looked at this one, it felt like. Ooh, I'm not sure if I can do this, but I think I can. Um, and so that was really exciting for me. And so that was for all those reasons. That's why I picked this one. Um, the Kokopelli trail, it starts in Moab, Utah. Um, so you see a theme here. It starts in Moab, Utah, and it ends in Loma, Colorado.

It's 137 miles with. 16, 000 feet of climbing. And the previous FKT was set by Kate Boyle and it was 13 hours and seven minutes. 

Karey: Yeah. So that's quite a feat. I mean, so I [00:14:00] bikepacked the, you know, I

Hannah: Yeah,

Karey: and um, I can't remember how many days we were on. I think it was either three or four. I can't remember if we took three or four…It felt hard. So it might have been three, but it might

Hannah: It is hard. Yeah.

Karey: , I mean, that trail is like, there is such beauty that cannot be matched by I mean, you go through so much and I think it's,

Hannah: Yes.

Karey: symbolic of what you go through also while you're writing it, it's like parts are just so amazing and you can't enjoy them and parts you have to like stop yourself and be like, okay, I'm suffering, but this is really just so amazing.

I mean,

Hannah: Mm

Karey: It's awesome that it's so close. I mean, , for us, even, you know, we're here. You know, I'm down in Phoenix, so it's like a seven hour drive to Moab. Um, really, that's not bad. You know what I

Hannah: hmm.

Karey: to have it like in your backyard and mean,

Hannah: Yeah, it's,

Karey: awesome,

Hannah: It's really awe inspiring. It, like, makes me feel a little emotional because I feel like exactly what you're describing is it's like [00:15:00] almost this, like, emotional, spiritual journey to traverse this terrain. And, you know, like, like we're saying, there's a big diversity in terrain, so there's big walls and ledges, very rocky, chunky terrain.

Then there's plains where it's like sand and tumbleweed. Um, you get like a couple of what I would call quote unquote oasis moments because it's so dry and hot out there. Then you have like the high alpine stuff where you get like the big trees and the shade. Um, you go down to the Colorado River, you have sand.

Single track, like there's just such a big diversity. And then on top of all of that, one of the things I love is you start in Moab and you go up and over the La Salle mountains, and this is a massive mountain range, and then you just keep riding away from it. And the whole journey, you can continually look back and see the La Salles get smaller and smaller and smaller in the distance.

And for me, it's a way that [00:16:00] I feel small. Like as I watch those mountains get smaller, it, just the whole time it would remind me like how just, I'm just this little tiny dot out there in this huge world moving across the landscape.

Karey: And what a feeling that is. I mean, when that happens, it's just like.

Hannah: Exactly.

Karey: can do anything, but you're also just the little person doing it. You know what I mean?

Hannah: Exactly. It puts it into context of, you know, almost like how insignificant we are. And I don't say that in a negative way. I say it in a very humbling way. Um, and the fact that it really does feel like we're just visitors in this landscape. You know, we don't own this landscape. It owes us nothing. Like, we're just enjoying the beautiful world, um, for what it is.

And that's also another reason, you know, there's a lot of controversy around filming FKT's and I think, , for me, it's, the beauty in filming it is the ability [00:17:00] to share it. Like you said, it's, it's, and to me that sharing it isn't sharing Look at this cool thing I did. It's sharing one, the story, um, that I'm sure we'll talk about and the message that I hope will impact people.

And then to share that landscape, because like you said, it is such a hard trail and it is very remote. Trail.

Karey: Yes.

Hannah: So very few, you know, at least not everyone has the ability to see it, um, in any capacity because it's hard to get out there. And so to be able to share that landscape and to give someone the feeling of that inspiration, the awe inspiring feeling, even if it's through a screen, I think is really impactful.

And I hope that maybe it also does motivate someone of, Oh my gosh, I had no idea. What's out there and now I want to go explore it even though I know it's going to be a hard journey.

Karey: Totally. Yeah. I mean, it's, you know, it's all [00:18:00] inspirational, I think, you know, I think it's also good for helping people that can't get out there or maybe it's a little bit beyond, or maybe they don't have the means, or maybe they live clear across the country or clear off

Hannah: Yeah.

Karey: And, but it is, it's still inspiring. Um, and people can live vicariously through the things that you're doing. I think. Um, 

I think it's especially hard for you, who is, you know, going out there unsupported, and you're just doing your thing, and you're trying to, you know, not be influenced by anybody else. And I love that, on the capture of the Kokopelli Trail, that you, you know, made a point that like, you know, yes, they were there, but they in no way helped me, and it's just in, even when you're like running down to the water, you know, to like get your stuff, and like, you know, people are right there, and it's like this moment of, especially in the first one, like, that it's this moment of, like, you're realizing, like, You are hurting and you're thirsty and you didn't get enough water and all this stuff and like where it could be very easy to like reach out even for emotional support from the people who are around [00:19:00] you and, um, just the sheer rawness of that and capturing that I think is really cool.

And it's hard to do. So props to you guys and the film. People and you know, everybody that went into that of capturing those moments, but then like leave kind of leaving you be and, and

Hannah: Well, thank you. Thank you. Yeah.

Karey: So cool to see.

Hannah: And I do think, you know, the film crew, again, like we're saying, it's so remote out there, like that, the footage that they captured is absolutely remarkable. Like that team is incredible. And in order to do that, we had Essentially four vehicles that had to leapfrog each other to intersect me because even in a side by side they can't Either they can't go over that train or they definitely can't go over it as fast as I am.

Um, like in the second attempt, you actually see me pass, uh, a Bronco. Um, [00:20:00] and that just shows like, you see how slowly that car is rock crawling. Like they can't, a bike is the fastest way to traverse this train. And so while I think some people might think, Oh, she had a film crew out there. She could turn to them at any moment.

They were intersecting me. So the times that I saw them were, you know, hours apart and then they might follow me with a drone. Um, it's not like they were just driving behind me where I felt like, you know, if, if something happened out there, there were many times where I would be using my SOS device,

Karey: Right. Exactly. Yeah. Oh my gosh. Well, good thing. Good thing that didn't happen.

Hannah: even though I really wondered a couple of times on that first attempt.

Karey: Oh my gosh. So let's go into that as well. So just getting into, let's talk about your journey and training. Like you could talk about, I mean, anything from how you picked The time of year, because I know the two times of the year when you did it. So you, you've attempted this [00:21:00] twice and on the second time, just for those who don't know the second time you achieved your goal.

Um, and most everything went better than the time before, but talk about the whole process and how you did it and what, how you prepped and then your decision to do it again and things like that.

Hannah: Oh my gosh. Yeah, there's, I could talk about this all day because there are just so many different facets to it. But, um, you know, like, like we talked out is I'm a racer and so I have a full race schedule. I race the lifetime Grand Prix. I race world cups. They race national championships. Um, you know, I'm race like. 20 plus weekends a year, and I'm preparing for those races and the Kokopelli was going to be the longest thing I had ever done. And so I also didn't know how I would recover from it. And so there was sort of this, I wanted to place my racing at the highest priority. And just in case I didn't recover well from the Kokopelli, I wanted it to [00:22:00] do it at the end of the season.

And so that's why we picked, you know, we can do this at the end of the season after my last race. On October 29th. Um, Kate had set the previous FKT in 2020 on, um, I believe November 6th. So looking at that, it also felt like, okay, people do this in the fall. It's not absurd. Um, then we had to back up and say, okay, well, when am I going to pre ride it?

Um, and so we did a pre ride, which we bike packed, um, a supported bike pack pre ride. We did it in two days. And that one, we had to pick a date in the middle of the season when I had some gap between races and we did it in July. Um, and if you've ever ridden a Moab in July, it was 110 degrees. So now I like to joke that I have ridden the Kokopelli in the hottest and coldest conditions humanly possible, which is quite, quite literally. A 100 degree difference.

Karey: my gosh.[00:23:00] 

Hannah: So, you know, we pre rode in July, we saw what the terrain was like. We planned out my water stops that helped inform us of the equipment I would need, you know, um, how I would pace it, all of those sorts of things. And then. We just had to wait till the end of the season. And we had planned that I would do the attempt on October 30th.

And as the week was coming in to October 30th, I was watching the weather in Moab just drop, drop, drop, drop. And in a last minute decision, we decided to pull it up one day because a storm was coming in on October 30th and we needed to beat the storm. this storm. And so we moved it to October 29th, and we thought we had done that.

We thought we had done it in the morning. Like, okay, I woke up. I felt good. Um, it was 35 degrees in town, which felt very doable for the beginning. But the tricky [00:24:00] thing about this and as a learning experience is that It does span such a long landscape that the weather is going to change across that landscape.

And it's going to change also according to the time of day you're getting to that landscape. And it's going to change according to the elevation that you're at in that landscape. And so it's actually very difficult to, Track and know what the terrain will be like across this entire thing. I think there is a level of We'll see when we get there um, and so You know, in Moab at 4, 000 feet, it was 35 degrees and you immediately climb up a 4, 000 foot climb.

And so, you know, less than halfway up, it started really dropping in temperature. And then about halfway up, I hit snow and the snow kept getting. Deeper and [00:25:00] denser until I was riding in some places in two to three inches of snow, the temperature was dropping significantly. The winds were picking up until I got to the very top where the actual temperature was 17 degrees with about a 20 mile per hour wind, which was putting the windchill in the single digits.

Karey: Oh my

Hannah: And at this point, you know, since I'm doing it unsupported or self supported, I didn't carry a ton of extra stuff because I would have to carry it the entire 13 hours. So at this point I had arm warmers, leg warmers, and a wind jacket and that was it.

Karey: Oh my

Hannah: So I was like, I was literally freezing. Um, you know, usually when you're climbing really hard like that, when you're pushing really hard, your body heat.

makes you feel okay. But despite how hard I was pushing, I was still shivering uncontrollably. [00:26:00] My hands were so cold that I lost all dexterity. I was shifting with the palm of my hand. I had pulled my hands out of the fingers of my gloves so that I could just ball them up on the inside to try and warm them.

My fingers were so numb. That at one point I went to grab something and I closed my hand into a fist to grab that item and then I just, I have this super vivid memory of them looking at my hand thinking, now open, open, and it, like the neurological signal would not, I couldn't open my hand. So I actually had to stop and take my other hand.

manually open my fingers. And then just when I thought like, this is the worst it can get. I went to drink some water. Cause I'm also thinking, okay, I'm shivering uncontrollably. I'm burning more calories. Um, I'm working hard, like my body is working harder to keep me alive. And I [00:27:00] go to drink some water and.

All of it had frozen. My whole hydration pack had frozen. My whole bottle had frozen. And it didn't unfreeze for four and a half hours.

Karey: Wow.

Hannah: So this was the start of attempt one.

Karey: I can't believe you kept going. I mean, that's the biggest thing is like, I mean, I would say probably the average person, more than the average person, would have just turned around at that point and run back down the hill.

Hannah: I think this is, well, it's funny because I think this is like, once you get something in your head, you know, once you commit to it, you are doing it. And I think, you know, there were two main things that really kept pushing me forward in that moment. The first is I was still ahead of the time.

I wasn't necessarily, I was not where I wanted to be, but I was still ahead of the FKT.

And so in my mind, I thought, well, What if I can still beat it against all odds, you know? [00:28:00] And I was ahead of the time all the way until 12 miles to go.

And so for 12 hours, I was beating the FKT in those conditions. And at that point, yeah, it's just, it's still, it's, it's still so like, Painful to talk out because I immediately feel what I felt in that moment and I'm saying that with a smile, you know Like because at this point there's no regrets, but I can remember exactly what I was feeling then it's like You've gone through all of this.

You've pushed through all of these elements. You have 12 miles to go. You're tied with the FKT.

Like, Hannah, you have to go now. And I remember just screaming out in my head those last 12 miles. Like, I very cognitively knew this was the make it or break it. You have come this far. Go, go, go, go, [00:29:00] go. But it was like my body was in full rebellion, like it was like I was screaming go forward and I just was moving in slow motion and it just felt like this agonizing dichotomy of like my brain moving so fast but my body moving so slow and watching that time just slip away. 

Karey: Yeah. Oh my gosh. So when you get to that point, I mean, there's really obviously nothing you can do. You said, you know, you're like, you're yelling at yourself or like, what are some other things that you used on either to keep yourself ahead of the time or, you know, just to keep going when those times were like really hard?

Like what are some things you do?

Hannah: Yeah, I, well and I, I'm glad you said that because I think that's the other thing that kept me pushing. Which is hope, hope that it will get better. Um, And the knowledge that it is temporary. And so I think that, you know, [00:30:00] if at hour two, like I could see into the future and someone said to me for the next 11 hours, this is how you'll feel.

I'd be like, Oh, okay. I'm out. You know, like it doesn't, that does not cognitively make sense. But you can, if you can get yourself into this place where it's like, I'm not thinking about the next 11 hours, I'm thinking about the next 11 minutes, or maybe even less, um, that can drive you forward, and that very much, it, hope was the theme of the day, because, you know, at first, it's hope that it will get warmer, you know, the sunrise, it'll, it'll get warmer, it'll get warmer, you know, Hope that the water will thaw.

Hope that the wind will slow down. Hope that, you know, the, my average speed will increase because, well, if the wind just slows down, then I'll speed up and I'll get the time back. You know, like all these little things you're just hoping, hoping, hoping, and that drives you to keep [00:31:00] pushing because if there's hope left to be had.

Why wouldn't you pursue it?

Karey: I mean, that's great. I mean, it seems so simple when you say it, but I think it is like learning to tap into that and not just get so bogged down with the present. Like, you want to live the present, right? You want to, like, acknowledge. What is happening, but you know, but also tapping into that hope is , it's what makes or breaks something like this You know what I mean?

It's

what 

Hannah: Yeah.

Karey: in front of the other pedal one more pedal stroke, you know, it's

Hannah: Yeah. And I think it's the case for all efforts like this, you know, even if they're not in conditions that are that severe, 

Karey: hmm. 

Hannah: I think that's what all endurance or ultra endurance athletes have to tap into at least a little bit. Because I think for anybody, no matter who you are, when you start out on something this long, the idea of, Okay, I'm settled into my pace.

I'm gonna hold this for [00:32:00] 13 hours. It, it just doesn't Like, it doesn't make sense that that works out. 

Karey: Mm 

Hannah: but if you can just focus on the next thing, and for me, a lot of my focus out there was on the tangible, like, what can I do right now, either to go faster or to find comfort and. You know, sometimes it was like, okay, well, for the next however long, I'm going to focus on the alignment of my knee over my paddle and just kind of like really honing in on these super specific things that would take you away from the fact that time is so slow or so long and then also just the curiosity element.

Like, I remember. very distinctly, um, at one point having at hour four thinking, Oh my gosh, I'm in so much pain. How can I maintain this pain for eight more hours? Like, there's just no way there's no way, you know, and you kind of like get [00:33:00] this panic building up. And then I had this thought that.

I wonder how quickly this can go away.

I wonder how quickly I'll overcome this thought. Because when you go this long, you have so many second, third, fourth, fifth winds. That feeling is always temporary. So it's like, is it going to last an hour? Is it going to last five minutes? I don't know, but I know it's not going to last the whole time.

So leaning into that curiosity instead of the fear, but the curiosity of, hmm, I wonder how I'll overcome this one, um, makes it feel, you know, a little bit, a little bit more like a game and less like a, , I guess more in your control rather than something out of your control. Yeah,

Karey: really good way of putting it. Yeah, because, you know, things are temporary and

it'll 

Hannah: exactly.

Karey: and Whether it's good or bad or whatever and yeah, you just gotta I love that curiosity part of it. That's really good I'm gonna use that next time I'm in a

Hannah: Good.

Karey: Situation [00:34:00] So, okay.

So then you talked about you know toward the end of this It's no good, very bad adventure.

You know, the time was like slipping away from you, um, really nothing you could do. You're still trying to move fast, but it's not happening. , how were those last, the 12 miles you said, how were they for you? And then when you finally got done, like, what was your emotional reaction to, you know, what did you do?

Hannah: Yeah. It was, it was the hardest thing I've ever done. Like that day for me will go down in history as the hardest thing I've ever done. And I would not be surprised if it's the hardest physical thing I ever do. Period. Because of what those elements did present. And. Not only how far I pushed my body, but how far the elements pushed me.

I have never gone that deep before. [00:35:00] And that was an interesting thing in those last 12 miles as well, as I think there was also a disconnect of mind and body of I'd never gone that deep before. And I could feel my mind and body not being. Like we don't, we've never felt this feeling before. Why would we keep going?

Like my body, I felt like was resisting this desire to keep pushing. Cause it was saying, whoa, whoa, whoa, this is, this is novel. What is this? You know, we have to stop. I'm pulling you back. And trying to fight through that was, , like nothing I've ever experienced before. And. Those last 12 miles, I was pretty delirious, uh, took a wrong turn.

I was pretty much straight up wobbling down the trail. Um, it is so funny looking back at the footage of it, because like I said, in my mind, I'm screaming, go, go, go. And I do watch the footage. I'm like, Oh my [00:36:00] gosh, I'm moving so slowly. Um, but it's so interesting because it was all, it was so much.

Desperation and not just desperation to beat the time, but desperation to be done. 

I think my body had hit a point where it was done.

And that's an example of I'm out there on the single track. No one can really get out there. And I remember very distinctly also watching the time click over on the FKT experiencing that moment of you did not get it.

And I. I was aware that it was going to happen, because I could see how far I had to go and the time, and I expected this huge emotional, like, feeling when it did. But I did not experience that, because I remember watching it click over, and thinking, I still have to finish.

Karey: Yeah.

Hannah: Like, there [00:37:00] was no, like, let go or release, because I just remembered thinking, I I still have to drag my bike and my body out of this thing.

And there was still so much desperation and fear attached to that, 

that I couldn't, I couldn't allow myself to feel the disappointment yet. And cause I wasn't, it was essentially, you know, for lack of a better word, survival at that point. And so it wasn't until I actually did finish that, you know, When I made it into the parking lot where the finish is, um, you know, I passed the finish line because you always want to make sure your GPS reads.

So like past the finish line, you know, and then I turned around and I remember thinking, okay, now I'll just turn around and ride back to them. And I turned around and there were maybe 50 feet back. And I just remember in my mind thinking, oh no, that's, that's way too far. Like at that point, anything was [00:38:00] too far.

And I just dropped my bike, collapsed on the ground and just laid like in a little ball shivering. And I think it was my, my, I think it was finally being safe. Like my mind was like, there are people. You are safe now, you no longer have to hold yourself up, someone else will hold you. 

And so, just like, everything crumbled in that moment.

And It honestly wasn't until even the next day that I felt the Disappointment 

because I was still experiencing the pain. You know, I think everyone knows this, right? It's like, you're out racing, you experienced the pain. You're like, I can't do anything else. And then it's once you cross the finish line, you're like, but what if I, what it like, could I have?

And that's when you start to feel the disappointment. So it wasn't until the next day that it's like, I missed it by 15 minutes. Like, are you kidding me?

I went through. All of that. Are you like all of [00:39:00] that 13 hours worth of suffering for 15 minutes? Like, and, and it was really, it was really frustrating.

It took me such a long time to recover from that. Um, because of the elements,

Karey: or

Hannah: all of the above. So both, because I think the mental and the physical were elevating each other. Like it, it took two weeks for my fingers and toes to no longer be. Um, like the tips and you know, my, when you are that cold, your body goes into survival.

It moves the blood away from your stomach, away from your digestive tract to, to protect your other vital organs. 

So I was struggling to eat, um, throwing up, like it was really, really difficult recovery. And when your body's going through that and you're sitting there with. this physical pain after the fact, you're thinking, yeah, and I [00:40:00] didn't even do it. Like I'm going through all this and I didn't even achieve it.

Um, and that was, it was definitely tough to work through. And I think I'm thankful that that manifested in like this burning desire to come back and do it. Cause I think it could have gone both ways, but that was, you know, the next day, like I said, when it really sunk in, when I really started to feel that disappointment and I showed up to do my post interview and I walked in and my first thing is To express that disappointment to the film crew to, you know, I said, guys, I'm so sorry 

I missed it.

I failed our mission. I'm, I'm sorry. I blew it. And they're all like, Oh my gosh, Hannah, no. Like, this is such an incredible story. You should see the footage we got. It's amazing. We can't believe you kept going. Like they were so supportive. Um, and they were like, you know, this, it's going to be a great film no matter what, and I was like, yeah, but [00:41:00] I still believe I can do it.

And. What if I did? Like, what do you mean? And I was like, well, would you hold the footage? Like, if I came back in the spring, would you just hold this footage and you can put it all out in the spring? And then maybe just like put a little, like, all I wanted was this little like sentence at the end, like Hannah came back in the spring and beat the FKT, you know, smiley face.

Right. And they were like, If you come back, we'll come back. And it like, just their belief in me in that moment was so empowering. 

Um, and like, I think that also goes to show the power of other people believing, you know, like,

Yeah. like I did have the desire to come back. I did want to overcome it. Yay for me, but it took the support of other people.

Like that is truly what drives you and makes you believe that you can do something like that, [00:42:00] because it would have been really easy for the people around me to be like, Hmm, I don't know, maybe we shouldn't do this again. And that can pull you down. But the fact that they believed is what really allowed me to say, okay, then let's go

Karey: I love, I mean, I love that like, and you're having these conversations like the day after, however, you know, soon,

because that 

Hannah: the day after. Yeah.

Karey: was one of my questions is like, how long did it take you to say, okay, I want to try again, know, I also think that's one thing that Even though that 15 minutes is hard to stomach, right?

It's 

like, 

you're 

Hannah: Hmm.

Karey: close and yet so far, you know, it's just like that so far meaning that you're in order to, you'd have to do that whole thing again and

suffer 

again. 

And 

Hannah: The whole thing.

Karey: not 

like, 

Oh, 

I'll 

Hannah: Yeah.

Karey: shot. 

 You know, there are other people involved and

support 

crew, 

Hannah: Yes.

Karey: about, but I actually think it's like that 15 minutes.

Probably was a magical number [00:43:00] seemingly, because if you were off by like three hours or five hours or, you know, it wouldn't have been five hours, but you know what I

mean? 

Like, 

oh, 

a 

Hannah: Yeah. Yeah. 

Karey: it for me, at least it wouldn't be, it would be much harder. I think to be like, uh, yeah, I actually do want to try again because you weren't so close, you know, but since it was such a short time and you're just like, even with all that, you're like, you're almost there.

It's like, you're just out of reach, you know?

Hannah: Well, and I've thought of it all the way even to the opposite extreme too, right? Of like, what if I had gotten it by one minute? What if I had just sneaked in there and snagged it? That would have been it. I would have been done. I would have been like, boom, got it. 

Um, and I wouldn't have had the incredible opportunity to go back and see what What can I really do on this trail?

So that's why I like to bring it full circle. This was the best thing that could have happened. You know, right now we're talking about because I got to go [00:44:00] back and break it by what I felt like is the most I could do, 

but it also gave me the first attempt. It gave me a superpower. And that was. That ability to dig deep.

It was the fact that that is the hardest I've ever gone. And so, like I said, my brain and my body were going, whoa, whoa, whoa, we don't trust you. We've never felt this before. In the second attempt, every time that would happen, I'd be like, ha ha ha. But you have, and I could dig that much deeper. And it gave me this. this new found perspective and respect for what hard really is. And I feel like now everything in my world, in my mind is compared to that first attempt.

So when something starts to feel hard, it's like, Ooh, but it's not as hard as Kokopelli number one.

And that drove me to that success in the second attempt.

[00:45:00] And. It's something I think that's why a lot of endurance athletes or athletes in general feel that sport is so connected to life because this applies to my life as well. And that's how we got the name of the film is after that first attempt for the next six months, my husband Clayton and I, every time something was hard, even in life, we would look at each other and say, okay, it's time to be Kokopelli strong.

And it became like this mantra in our house. that basically reminds you you're capable of more than you think you are.

Karey: yeah. I mean, that's it is really awesome. And I think I most athletes that I've talked to, like, do have, they've either had situations in their life where they've had to be that, like, Kokopelli strong

or, 

you 

Hannah: Mm hmm.

Karey: They have to tap into that at some point. And it really, I think experiencing these things in the outdoors and in nature [00:46:00] and that we're doing both in racing and, and, or just like, you know, your weekend adventures, if you're really pushing yourself is like really does stem to real 

Hannah: Mm hmm. Mm

Karey: it And, um, really makes us stronger as individuals.

And, and I think also, I mean, correct me if I'm wrong, but like my partner also loves to adventure and stuff. And so when we're able to experience one of these things together or these times

together, 

it 

Hannah: hmm. 

Karey: closer to the people around you and being able

to, 

Hannah: Oh, yeah.

Karey: system and. so that's, that's really awesome. So let's talk a little bit about, so your second attempt. So

you 

said it 

Hannah: Mm hmm.

Karey: months later. Um, and is that having to do with your schedule as well? Like your racing schedule and training schedule? Yeah.

Hannah: and no. So that was also one of the really frustrating things is, you know, I finished this, I don't get it. I'm like, we planned this whole thing out in my racing calendar and now I have to figure out when in the world I can come back and get this [00:47:00] thing and I have to wait for the snow to melt. Um, and that, oh gosh, that was so hard and so frustrating.

Like I, you know, after all of it, like a couple of weeks after there's like this nice weather period. And I was like, What if I just went back now? Like, what if we could just knock it back, knock it out now? And Clayton was like, so help me, Hannah. If you don't stop talking about this thing, I will lock up your bicycle.

Like. We need to leave this be for a beat. Um, you know, and so it was like, okay, okay. Wait till the snow melts. Um, March rolled around. That was my goal. Cause I wanted to do it before the season started and you know, March rolls around and the crew's telling me like, Hey, we're down in Moab, there's still a little bit of snow on the trail, like probably not the best.

And I'm like, send me photos. I can do it. Send me photos. And I'm like, okay, Hannah, like, have you literally learned nothing? Like you need to wait and respect the trail and respect like the elements because you already tried it that way once and it didn't work. Um, so it was a lesson of patience. [00:48:00] So basically we were just waiting for the snow to melt.

Um, on top of the fact that we were trying to find a place in my calendar where it made sense. And so we ended up doing it. On May 4th, which was one month before Unbound, um, and so what we were banking on and what I was hoping for was that it would function as the perfect training for the Unbound 200, which would be the longest distance I had ever raced in comparison to the Kokopelli, which was the longest time I had ever, um, quote unquote, competed for.

Karey: Well, that's sounds perfect then.

Hannah: Yes, it ended up working out really well. And again, it's like, I think it's a lesson also. And sometimes, you know, the best laid plans aren't the best laid plans, right? Like I thought I had it all dialed in. I thought I planned all these things perfectly. And like we just [00:49:00] talked out, like sometimes the best plan is the one you never thought of.

Karey: Yeah. Isn't that funny how life just hands you

lessons 

Hannah: Yeah. Yeah. 

Karey: So what are, what are some of the biggest things, I mean, you talked about, obviously the weather was one thing, but like pick like maybe three to five of the, like the top things that you learned that helped you from the first one to the second one.

Yeah. Totally.

Hannah: Mm hmm. Um. Ooh, that's so hard. I think, 

Karey: Or 

Hannah: because there's like a million.

Yeah, I mean, , kind of starting, like what I just talked about was that lesson of patience, not just like, Trying to make something like a square peg fit into a round hole, you know, this lesson of, okay, I can be patient and I can do this the right way because I think a lot of us endurance athletes were really hard headed and we want things to work and we want it to work our way.

[00:50:00] Um, so that. acknowledgment of patience. Um, I would say one, two sort of goes along with that, but it's the acknowledgment within myself that I am adaptable. 

Karey: Mm-Hmm. 

Hannah: that was one of my mantras the second time, is things will go wrong. You know, that first time, even though I was able to overcome the elements to the degree that I did, 

they caught me off guard.

And so when everything started going sideways, I was surprised. The second time I felt, I felt like going out there, nothing will surprise me because I'm prepared for anything and that doesn't mean I can anticipate what it is, but it means that I'm trusting myself to be adaptable enough to overcome it.

And so the second time when I started, I wasn't hoping for perfection like I was the first time. And I think that that mindset gave me a lot more flexibility to be the best [00:51:00] that I could be because I wasn't trying to mold this experience into something specific. I was just letting it. unfold before me and then molding myself according to it.

Um, and then that third thing is kind of what we already talked about, which is the fact that I think as human beings, we are constantly comparing. We constantly look at one experience and compare another experience to it. And that's one of the ways that our brains allow us to, um, It's to function through the world is how do I do this?

Well, it's similar to how I did that. Can I do this? Well, yeah, because I've done something close to it. And that's kind of how we move through life. And so the fact that I at this point had now had this really, really hard experience, it felt like nothing. would ever be as hard. And that allowed me to push myself in a way that I hadn't previously [00:52:00] been able to do, um, like willingly, I guess, because it was an un, it was an unwilling thing.

You know, it was these elements that pushed me to that place the first time. And now I knew that I could go that deep. And so now I'm I was able to will myself to that place and get more out of myself than I ever had before.

Karey: cool. So it's like, even though the other stuff was super hard and you're like, it almost allowed you to even dig deeper. Like, it's like,

okay, 

well, 

Hannah: A hundred percent.

Karey: but look, you did that. And so let's, you know, let's try some more.

Hannah: A hundred percent. Yep. Yep. And I think that that's, and that's something that I, I hope that for the rest of my life, I remember. what that first attempt feels like. And I feel like, you know, every now and then I'll close my eyes and just try and remember what that pain was so that I can [00:53:00] be appreciative of it and be able to say like, Oh, that's, that's what heart is.

And like you said, then be able to push myself even harder.

Karey: Just jumping forward a little bit, do you feel like mentally and physically, but especially mentally, I think, your first and second attempt and these kind of adventures like helped you in unbound? Like,

was 

it, 

You 

know 

Hannah: Yeah. 

Karey: about comparing or whatever, you know, Unbound is definitely a different experience because it's gravel and it's still hard and but then you're also with a group of people, you don't necessarily get to dictate your pace, you know, things like that. But like, how do you feel like it helped you?

Hannah: Yeah, um, gosh, I'm just so grateful for that because I think unbound, it is a very intimidating race. I mean, 200 miles. It's like, holy smokes. That is a long ways. Um, and for most people, it's the longest event. That they do. Um, and so, and for me, if it weren't for the Kokopelli it [00:54:00] would've been by a long shot.

And so when I decided originally to do it, there was so much intimidation involved with it because I hadn't done the Kokopelli yet, and I'm looking at it going, wow, that's gonna be a long day. Um, but after the Coco, like you said, the comparison factor of one that subjective what is hard. Um, and then two, knowing that Unbound was gonna be about.

Nine and a half hours in comparison to the Kokopelli, which was, you know, on my best day, 12, you know, just under 12, um, it's, it's shorter. Right. So I'm going into it thinking, okay, I, you know, I, I don't know how I'll do. There's still a huge amount of humility and respect for something of that magnitude.

But. I know I can do it.

I don't know how I'll do but I know I can do it and that inspires so much confidence when you're pursuing something like that. And [00:55:00] it was really fun too because the Kokopelli, you know, it was something that we were keeping under wraps until it all came out. Um, and so, It hadn't been announced coming into Unbound, and when I found myself in that lead group towards the end of the race, I heard, after the fact, a lot of, like, announcers or media outlets being like, oh wow, and Hannah's still in the group, like, that's so surprising because this is her longest event ever, which is true, and like, I'm, I'm actually so grateful, like, what a fun 

Karey: Yeah. 

Hannah: um, kind thing for people to acknowledge, but it just felt like this fun little secret like in my own heart of being like, but I prepared so well, you know, but I, I've done this other thing.

Um, you know, and, and so that it, I don't know, just the whole thing felt like really, a really special, um, opportunity. Yeah.

Karey: just flying on the tail feathers of it, you know, coming in and then having such an awesome finish and, you know, we were talking about right before we started this [00:56:00] that, um, you know, that the Unbound this year for the women, the 200 was , just a mark in history for women's racing and women's bike sports and everything.

It's just like with, , you know, nobody knew really how it was going to turn out because previously with, you know, being able to race with the men and, and stuff like that, you know, it's kind of, you know, You don't know what you're going to get when you don't have that.

Hannah: Yes. 

Karey: I think, attests to is, you know, there it comes. Was it nine women at the end?

Hannah: Yeah. 

Karey: At the end of 200 miles, which is so crazy. So congratulations for, for being there and for being able to experience that and make this mark in history. And I think it does go to like, just a test to the level of competition and the level of athletes 

Hannah: Yes. 

Karey: …In the Women’s fields right now is just amazing. Phenomenal and they… 

Hannah: Yes.

Karey: It wouldn't be there without These super strong women like yourself who are really challenging yourself, you know You're not just challenging yourself in the field, but like in your other [00:57:00] things like this, you know Nobody forced you to do the Kokopelli nobody  forced  you to… 

Hannah: Mm hmm. Mm

Karey: It's Adventure rides are these, you know, these other personal goals. Um, and you're not, you know, and you're not the only one that's doing this, which is super awesome because then…when y'all get together…

Hannah: A hundred percent.

Karey: You know, and then it's just so exciting for everybody. 

Hannah: Yeah, I'm so grateful to have been in that sprint finish, you know, not just because of whatever result that is, but to, I mean, it was a truly historic moment and I think we all, you know, in the last 20 miles, as we were getting closer and realizing it was going to be a sprint, I think we all realized how important Special and historic that was.

And it, like you're saying, it really felt like a moment where we were lifting each other up and getting the most out of each other because, you know, when one person's strong, everyone else has to level up their game to meet that. And so that's why, you know, Like it's, [00:58:00] it's making each other better. 

Um, and I think that it was really special to get to do that.

And one of the things about it as well is when there was discussion about a women's only start, one of the concerns that was brought forth was the fact that there aren't quite as many women in the field as there are men. And so what if it all just spreads out and we're all just riding alone and it takes too long.

Um, and then. What happened? Not that. It was the closest race ever with nine women in a sprint finish for first,

and it was the fastest unbound for women ever. And that, that's a huge deal because in the past, women have drafted off of men. So you would think using the power of the men, oh, that will make us faster.

But no, it was not. The women powering the pace and driving the pace from start to finish that created our fastest race time.

Karey: that's so awesome. [00:59:00] That's awesome. We need more of that. Let's do more of that! 

Hannah: Yes. Yes.

Karey: Awesome. Well, so then let's just, let's close out your SKT. So how are your feelings? I mean, like when you knew like that was how, how was the end for you? And like, what happened? Talk a little bit about that experience. 

Hannah: Yeah. Um, it was really special. And like I said, the second time I went into it, like, nothing will surprise me. Um, I was a lot more in a good way. I was a lot more jaded in terms of Things are going to happen out here, you know, like I didn't have such a naive, you know, blissful mindset. It was like, okay, I'm going to battle, you know?

And so all day long as I'm chipping away at this time and gaining minutes and minutes, it never felt like I was ahead. I never felt like, oh, I can just rest in this. It was like every minute I gained, it was like I was building. Just this buffer. [01:00:00] And so all day long, you know, even when I became an hour up on the previous FKT, my mindset was, okay, I have an hour to play with.

If something goes wrong, I have an hour to play with. And especially the fact that it ends in that very difficult single track, 

that felt really important because a lot, I think can go wrong in that final single track. And so it really wasn't until I was like a mile out from the finish, um, where it was like, okay, if something goes wrong, I could like run from here.

Um, it wasn't until I was like a mile from the finish that it really hit me. Like, okay, you've done it. And it was really special at the finish. Um, just to, to celebrate and to celebrate with, with everyone who had been through that whole experience with me and, um, You know, it was a mixture of, you know, total joy and also relief of this thing that we have chased now at [01:01:00] that point for almost a year, it had been a goal.

And so it was really fulfilling. Um, and like I said, everyone had put so much into it from the film crew to my husband, to my coach, to, you know, and it was just really special to feel like it came to fruition for all of us.

Karey: Oh, my gosh. That's so special. And to have your support system there for you when you're done. And I mean, you just can't beat that.

Hannah: Yeah, yeah, exactly.

Karey: That's so awesome. So, um, yeah. So, then the video, um, Put out by Competitive Cyclists is out there on the YouTube. Everybody needs to watch it. It's very inspiring, very beautiful, uh, very well done and thank you for putting that out there. I mean, you know, because this stuff happens all the time too, and it doesn't always get to be captured. And, you know, we talked about that, but, um, I'm really glad that we are able to see Your efforts and what happened there. Um, so what's next?

Like, do you have any other scheming plans [01:02:00] that you have for either FTTs or just adventures in general or?

Hannah: Yeah. I mean, so the rest, you know, I have the rest of the season, um, the rest of the lifetime Grand Prix and the marathon mountain bike world championship is in the U S this year. 

Um, and it's on the course, the world cup course that I won on last year. So that's really exciting to go back to that course.

Um, race that it's a big goal of mine. Um, so lots of racing still to be had, but that's kind of my sticky way of avoiding the question because yes, I, I had definitely have other FTA T aspirations. Um, and competitive cyclists and I, you know, we're in the planning stages of that, but not ready to announce it yet.

Karey: Fine. I guess I'll wait. No, I'm kidding. Oh, that's super awesome. So, I, um, I always ask everybody, because my favorite part about all this stuff is, um, the snacks. Um, do you have when you're [01:03:00] adventuring or when you, you know, cause I know also racing is sometimes a little bit different than just adventuring because you're, you're really, really, really pushing yourself at high pace and sometimes your body can't, um, stomach as, as many different things or like real food things.

But do you have any favorite snacks that you like while you're on the bike?

Hannah: Um, yeah, it's a good question. Like you said, like if I'm racing or something, it's pretty much all race food, like drink max. And I use like first endurance, uh, liquid shots and stuff like that.

But if we're talking about just like fun rides being out there, you know, I really, um, I really enjoy. Like the gummy candies, the peach rings.

And then I really also like the little gummy Coca Cola's.

Yeah. I really like this.

Karey: choices. Those are two of my favorites as well.

Hannah: Nice.

Karey: Yeah, I always ask him because I am seriously like, I always want to know other people's favorite snacks just in case I'm missing out on,[01:04:00] 

Hannah: Yeah. That's what I was just thinking. I was like, Oh my gosh, I'm gonna have to go back and listen to every episode. So I can like get my snack list improved.

Karey: general, the gummies, like the gummy worms, the gummy, like the peach-o’s have come up a couple times, so I think you're, you're in good, you're in good form there.

Hannah: Good.

Karey: Well, awesome, I feel like there's, I feel like there's so much I could talk to you about. We'll have to have you on again, like, when we, when you do your next stuff, or after the Grand Prix's, or after the championships, but, um. , it's been so good to hear from you today and to talk to you. Um, how can people follow you or what are your socials and all that stuff?

Hannah: Yeah, thank you. Um, you can follow me on Instagram at thehannahotto.

Karey: Alright. Um, and what is your, what is your next race? When, when is that?

Hannah: My next race is Leadville on August 10th.

Karey: Perfect. Yeah. I have a couple of friends doing it…

Hannah: Yeah.Yeah. 

Karey: They got in the lottery. So they're  going to be  doing that. 

Hannah: Oh, yay!

Karey: Um, so I'm definitely going to be following that.

Hannah: Awesome. 

Karey: That's always a good one to [01:05:00] follow. 

Hannah: Yeah, Yeah, Leadville is one of my favorites, so I'm excited.

Karey: All right, good. Well, yeah, I'll definitely be watching out for that one. All right. Well, thank you again, um, so much and the best of, I don't like to say the word luck, but the best to you and all the rest of your season.

Hannah: Thank you.

Karey: Thanks. Bye!