Episode 14: Trail Report: White Rim Trail with Patrick (Patty) White

Join your host Karey and her partner Patrick (aka Patty) while they chat about their recent adventures on the White Rim Trail near Moab, UT.

Karey and Patty have had this trail on their bucketlist for a long time.  This rugged loop is jam packed with views for days and all the red rock you could hope for.  The route is by permit only, and permits go fast for prime time, so make sure that if you are wanting to check this route out, that you go do your research and set an alarm for when permits open up. 

Karey also has a write up on her website if you want to read some more about their adventure and see some pics of the views! 

Bikepacking.com Info

Karey's Write Up

IG: Crappy Patty

Transcript

RAAZ Prep with Patty

Karey: [00:00:00] Okay. So we're doing something a little bit different today because my partner in crime Patty aka Patrick…Patty is getting ready to go on, an adventure of his own. And for this one, I'm being a support system from afar, which is a new venture for me. We usually adventure together. Um, so it's also his first solo outing. So we kind of wanted to cover like what we do or just talk about the last couple adventure trips that we've been on, because they've been kind of planning and preparing for, um, this big adventure that he's going on, which is the ride/race, whatever you want to call it, Ride Across Arizona, which is a predominantly gravel route that uses back roads and forest service roads and things like that. Well, actually I'll let him, he's right here. Let's have him talk about [00:01:00] what, Patty, tell us what is the RAAZ?

It's R-A-A-Z. 

Patrick: So I'm calling it a ride because I'm definitely not racing it. So to me, it is a ride. So RAAZ or Ride Across Arizona, is a 600 and some change mile trek across Arizona from the California border to the New Mexico border, and it starts in Topock, or however you pronounce it, California or Arizona, so right on the border over there, um, right by Needles. 

For those of you who know, the hottest place in America, yeah, which we learned last year, yeah, um, and traverses Um, eastbound, um, with a couple of stops in a couple of key cities, such as Bad Dad, Seligman, Williams, Flagstaff, uh, Show Low, and a couple of the other eastside, um, areas in [00:02:00] Arizona, which I haven't been to very much, so, um, yeah, yeah, 

Karey: Very good description.

Patrick: Thank you. 

Karey: So it's a long ride over multiple days. Um, we both attempted this together as a duo team, unsupported duo, last year and we got all the way to Williams and I had to stop at the urgent care because I couldn't keep anything down and had been feeling sick for a couple of days, a day, two and day three of our journey.

And, um, turned out I had COVID so our, our race/ride, which we were totally racing last year. Oh yeah. But we were kicking, but it was amazing. But anyway. We'll get out there again together sometime, but, uh, we had to pull the plug early because of COVID stupid COVID. So anyway, Patty's out for redemption this year, but just out there to push himself and see what he can do solo, which is very exciting.

Um, and so [00:03:00] as such, we've done a couple of adventures lately, which for me. Um, you know, I haven't been on the bike a lot. I'm not making excuses, but I'm just stating a fact that with all my running, um, which has gotten me into pretty good shape overall, uh, definitely hasn't gotten like my butt in shape as far as like being on the saddle and my triceps in shape for like being able to like hike a bike and that kind of thing.

Yeah. Even though we'll talk about that later. Um, but, uh, so we've done two pretty awesome trips that were Sufferfest for me, probably were moderate Sufferfest for Patty. Um, and kind of like how he's preparing and then how I'm supporting him, preparing with him, suffering with them. Um, so recently in. Was it March or was it April?

It was like the very last week of March. I think. The very last week of March. Yeah, we did. We went and rode the White Rim trail, [00:04:00] which is, do you want to do another description? 

Patrick: Um, White Rim trail. I mean, It's basically a 100 mile loop in the Canyonlands National Park, um, right outside of Moab. Um, and it goes along the Whiterim Trail, um, which is breathtaking.

Uh, you're basically riding alongside the cliff sides, um, throughout the canyon, um, through its entirety. And there's views beyond views. Uh, you're a little bit above the Colorado River and you eventually traverse down towards it before climbing back out of the canyon. Um, 

Karey: And , you have to have a permit, um, which the permits are snatched up pretty quickly for the prime time. So if you're ever interested in going, 

Patrick: We got our permit, what a year in advance. 

Karey: They go, uh, it's, I [00:05:00] think it's like nine months ahead of time is when they go. There's like a rolling window when they open up. Um, so if you are interested in doing the white rim, um, just keep an eye out, set something on your calendar.

They announced when those days are going to be. Um, and then, or, you know, when they open up and then, um, you just basically have to have a couple of dates that might work for you and have your route already planned out because there's, or like have options because you have to book at least for, for that permit, you have to book according to what campsite you're being at, and there's multiple ways to ride the route, which we can talk about a little bit.

Um, but just be prepared when you go to book because. People catch them up, snag, snag them up really quickly. Um, and so we, I think kind of lucked out because we're on the kind of like the edge season where it could be a crap, it's kind of crapshoot cause you, it could be really, really cold and miserable.

Like last year we were going to go [00:06:00] and we did, uh, we had gotten permits for the week before, so like the second week of March or the third week of March and it ended up being. Windy and rainy and snowy and sleety and like really, really cold. Like 20 degrees. We were going to do that one with Aliza. Yeah, but we ended up doing Kofa.

Yeah, we ended up doing Kofa Wilderness, which is great because we got a new adventure under our belts, which we weren't planning on. Um, and it ended up being like 80 degrees instead of like 20 degrees. But, um, anyway, so that, you know, kind of like edge of the season time is, um, is iffy, but. As luck would have it, we had temperature wise, we, we had pretty good, pretty good time.

Um, yeah. So anything else you want to say about the route? 

Patrick: Um, only other thing is, um, especially if you are, if you're planning to do it is, uh, be very water [00:07:00] conscious. Um, so there's no reliable water um, supply on the route. There are a couple of spots where you can get down to the river supposedly, but we weren't able to find one.

Um, so either there is an access trail that you can get to and hike up and stash some water if needed. Um, but either you do that or you carry All your water enough for you for however long you're doing it or you do it supported. 

Karey: So yeah, so we did it. Um, and all that information, by the way, there's a lot of good information on bikepacking.

com. So check that out. But so we did it. Um, Unsupported. So we are carrying all of our water and our food and we did it in two days. So some people also do it in three days. Um, but we did it in two days, one night and. Well, let's [00:08:00] just start out from the beginning. We car camp. Okay. We car-camped the night before in a nearby campground.

I'm just up from the visitor center from the sky islands in the sky, about 10 minutes away. Um, what was the campground called? Uh, horse thief, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, campground, um, super chill, you know, nothing fancy. We camped in the back of the car and Patty's pad, sleeping pad, excuse me, had a hole in it.

Patrick: Well, even, well, yeah, well, before that, so we have, so we took my car, which is a Ford Escape and we built a little platform to put in the back of the car. So, um, when we're camping in it. It's level. We're not tilted. You don't have any of the car components poking in the back or anything like [00:09:00] that. And it's carpeted on the top and everything.

So, um, but we hadn't been car camping for a while, so I totally in the rush of just getting everything ready and packing everything in the car. I totally forgot to bring it. So that was the first thing we were missing. And I'll let you, and then the second thing, the second thing was your pad, right? To go along with that platform, we have a sort of fitted, um, sleeping or air mattress that we put in the back on top of that.

So it's not like our, it's not like our bike packing one. It's like, yeah. Um, so that's kind of fitted for the back of the car and it goes on top of there to, uh, act as a sleeping pad for us, if you will. It's an air mattress. Um, so it's an air mattress. Yeah. Um, forgot that too. 

Karey: So I [00:10:00] go to, I go to get that out of the car and then I pull out two little pillows, blow up pillows and I was like, is this all you brought?

Patrick: Cause we, it, it all came in a little mesh bag, but. Missing from that mesh bag was the air mattress itself. The air pump, the pillows and all that were in there. The air mattress was not. 

Karey: So we decided to use our camping pads. Easy peasy, except for Patty discovered upon blowing his up that it almost immediately went flat even before it went to bad bed.

So we tried to put some tape on it that didn't work electrical, electrical tape, cause that's what we had didn't work. Uh, and that was about it. We decided that. Yeah. Because we didn't have any of the patches. Usually I carry like a pad patch or like that, the little, you know, that you can patch almost anything tape, [00:11:00] um, with me when we're bikepacking, but I had, we, let's just say we were in a hurry, um, or not in a hurry, but we didn't have very much time.

Cause there was a lot going on right before this for both of us and work and just life in general. And so we had, this is our kickoff adventure for the summer. Yeah. We were a little bit rusty. Yeah. A little bit rusty. So Patty had a rough night of sleep. Um, but we got going in the morning and then got to the visitor's center where we were going to park.

So they give you a little permit to overnight park and, um, that you get with your, with your permit. And we realized that the route that we had so expertly downloaded onto our Garmin and our phones with RideGPS. Wasn't actually synced with anything. So we didn't really have a route.

Uh, we had it like on Strava, but then we didn't have service and then we had it on right with GPS. And then we had it on Garmin. So we [00:12:00] spent the next half an hour, 40 minutes trying to wander around a single, a single bar. 

Patrick: Running around the visitor centers with our phones in one hand and the Garmin in the other hand, you know, like to the sky, trying to get signal, looking like crazy people.

Karey: And then finally somehow miraculously worked. We were in one spot and I just worked and we didn't, didn't move a muscle. I was still as I've ever been. Yup. And so the funny thing though, was after all that effort, now, if you ever do the white room trail, you'll, you'll figure it out that this route is the most well marked route.

The only thing is there's a cutoff. Now that is standard in the loop. That's up, um, up the road as you turn South to come back to the visitor center There's like a little cut that you can go through like some single track or double track That's that cuts about three miles of just road [00:13:00] off So anyway, so that was the only place that we definitely used the route, but it is the most well marked route So we didn't even need the freaking or Or if you have trail forts, it was perfectly marked.

Yeah, you don't, you don't need, yeah. Anyway, but it's always good to be prepared. So, you know, we were being prepared. So anyway, um, yeah, so we started at, like I said, we started at the visitors center, so there are multiple ways to do this route. Um, some people sort of visit the visitor center, some people park. A little bit further down, so like off the main road, there's a little dirt lot, um, that's, Schaefer switchbacks, um, which is like the main descent there.

Um, and this is going clockwise. Um, and so, and then some people start unclear the opposite side and they actually park at the top of the mineral. Switchbacks, um, which is like the final [00:14:00] climb or like the big climb out, but you, some people park there and then ride the road first up and over past the, and then start the route that way.

Um, which, knowing what we know now, We would highly recommend, highly recommend the slogging up that hill at the end of the track, not just the climb, the actual climb, like actually wasn't that bad. Yeah. The steep, the steep, the steep climb is fine. Fine. The steep climb. Pseudo climb with the wind and, and whatever, just this is like, and there's not really any, many good views out there as well.

So I would definitely recommend doing that to start. And then you have the descent in the middle to break it up. And then you have, you know, whatever else you want to do. But anyway, I guess it also depends on what campsites you get. So anyway, what was the weather like?

Patrick: So the weather on the first day was actually really good.

Well, it was [00:15:00] windy, but the wind was in our favor. It was a nice thing. We had a pretty, we had a pretty good tailwind for the most part. 

Karey: I don't remember a tailwind ever. 

Patrick: Um, we had a, we, we did, you're just remembering the bad part, so, um, it wasn't all tailwind, I'll, I'll agree, but we, we had, we had a good, a good Um, and it was, I would say partly cloudy.

Yeah, so that first day was really nice because when the sun did come out, it was warm and we're talking, you know, we're in March and it was really warm. Like, I was really thankful that we had cloud cover most of the time. Yeah. Um, but yeah, it was other than that, it was good. We got no rain or anything like that.

And yeah, it was, to me, it was, it was a good way. 

Karey: Well, I'm going to say a different story where it was great that there was cloud cover, but. There was so much wind. You don't even know, like, I felt like I was [00:16:00] standing still. And so,

Patrick: You know, you're, you're, you're, you're right. I'm thinking, I'm thinking of the trip that we just did, which we had wind in our favor.

I think I was just, 

Karey: well, we did have, because, you know, so it curves around, but across the bottom there, it was like a crosswind going into a major 

Patrick: because. The way we were going with the wind, we were struggling and we were miserable comparatively to the others who were going counterclockwise, getting the tailwind, smiling, gleeing the whole way.

Karey: So we started thinking like, are we going the wrong way? Like, anyway, and I guess that's something you can consider too is like, I mean, depending where you're parking and how the wind is going, cause it can get super windy out there. Like we're talking like gusts of wind that would like, like 30 to 40 mile [00:17:00] per hour gusts.

And that's legit, like what the weather said. And I would believe it because it would like gust and blow a smack of wind or sand in your face. And then like, basically take your breath away and almost knock you over or like put you at a standstill on your bike. Like that's what some of the, the crosswinds and the headwinds were doing to us.

And especially at the end of the day. So we, so our first day, we rode all the way from the Island in the Sky Visitor Center to Potato bottom C, which was, is like 70 something miles. So we did the majority of, yeah, almost a whole loop basically. Um, in that first run and, you know, and we, we got there before, before dark, like we had time, you know, and we'll, we'll get into that in a second, but.

Um, it definitely for me, like, again, I hadn't been on the bike for a while and I just felt like so slow. So, like, I feel like for me at least, like, if I would have been training for something, I mean, [00:18:00] I'm always training, but, you know, if I would have been training for something, I feel like that, like, moral or mental, uh, Fortitude.

You know, that was a good trip for some mental fortitude. Like, did you ever have a in the wind stuff? Did you have a low point? 

Patrick: On that first day. I wouldn't, I mean, you always have a low point at some point. So I would say towards the end, I was just ready to be done because I hadn't, I hadn't really been on the bike for that many hours and that distance in a while, I would have done a couple of big rides.

Um, but those were just like three, four hour rides locally. Um, but this was all day, eight, nine hours on the bike. Yeah. Um, So it was really just at the end, just wanting to be done. And as we're passing all these campsites, I'm just [00:19:00] like, can this be our campsite? Can this be, 

Karey: Well, and people are like, toward the evening as well.

Afternoon, evening, like everybody's like setting up their camps and you can see all the tents going out, like 15 miles to go.

Patrick: So I would say that was kind of a low for me on the first day. It was just not being used to that distance in that amount of time on the bike quite yet and just wanting to kind of be done.

Karey: Totally. Yeah. Which I think it's interesting. Like, you realize, like, I don't know, I always think it's interesting. The mind is, is a weird thing where like, if you knew you had to go like a hundred and something miles, then when you get to 70, it might not seem like it'd be like, yeah, I've been on the bike for a while, but like you have the mental fortitude to keep going.

But when, you know, it's coming up. Close. And you're like, okay, I only have 76 miles to go. And like your body starts doing the shutdown. Like, Oh, we're almost there. I can get hungry. I can be tired. I can be like, whatever.

Patrick: It's like when you're [00:20:00] driving home from work and you have to use the bathroom and.

You're fine and dandy, most of the drive there, until you're around the corner, then suddenly, that alarm in your body is going off. We've got to go to the bathroom. And then, yeah, exactly.

Karey: Anyway, okay. So let's see. And yeah, my low point I think was just the whole time. No, it wasn't the whole time. It was just, I think when we were going across the base of it, when that wind was just horrible and it's a little bit of a, Climb, but enough that you don't like it, you don't realize it. Yeah.

Patrick: That's like demoralizing, probably the windiest part too. Yeah. Remember I checked in on you and you were like, I just need a moment. I got off my bike.

I just got to do what I need. Yeah. I've learned through this many adventures. Yep. You're good at that. See support, buddy. It's exactly, [00:21:00] exactly. 

Karey: Um, yeah. And then I also feel like I kind of was having a hard time eating. Like I didn't, I don't know. I just don't think I ate enough on that. Right. But also, so the water things, so going back to the water, there is really, there's absolutely no. Water. Like even if it's rained recently, don't, don't plan on it. 

Patrick: Yeah, because we, because doing intel for the ride, it, it, it did rain like the week. Yeah. Or not even the week, but like two days, three days prior or something prior. And I messaged a couple of the people who had done it. I just looked at their rides and messaged them on Strava or whatever.

And they said, Oh yeah, there are pools there, um, that you can get water from and everything, um, from the recent rains. But when we were there, no, it was as dry as could be. Yeah. 

Karey: So, um, you know, it's, it's kind of like they say in the grand Canyon, like the sun is going to be hotter than you think it's going to be.

And it's just like, there's nowhere to hide. And, [00:22:00] um, you know, it sounds like death Valley out there, but it's like, I mean, it's absolutely beautiful, but come, uh, Prepared. Yeah. So especially even in like, you know, especially like there's that hot in March, like think about, you know, in May and they say like, you know, a lot of places that I've read, um, they say like plan on like four liters of water per person per day.

But like, so I definitely, I had about that much, but , I thought that I was going to, I have major water anxiety. Um, and so I, I don't like feeling like I have to ration, but I kind of was rationing. So I think that added to like my stress. I feel like I'm talking about like, all my stressful points.

I didn't have an okay time. And we got to see mountain sheeps, big horn sheep. That's what they're called. In my blog, did I call them mountain sheeps? Did you read it? I can't remember.

Big horn sheep. Big horn sheep. And so we saw a bunch of those, which is Patty's spirit animal. So he was [00:23:00] very excited about that. Of course. 

Patrick: And personal right next to us. It wasn't like they were out on top of the mountain. They were right next to us. Yeah. Yep. Just a big family or group of them. Heard, heard, heard of them, a family.

Karey: So we were, we were coming into camp and I was pretty stressed about water because like, Also, I probably wasn't calculating correctly or like I wasn't, my brain wasn't very functional cause I was pretty tired. But I was like, you know, obviously you want to drink more water the first day than the second day.

Cause the second day is only like 30 miles versus 70 miles. Um, but we also had this climb. We didn't know what the climb out of the Mineral Bottom was going to be. Um, we just didn't, you know, didn't know what to expect. And so, um, anyway, so we get to camp and again, we were camping at potato bottom. Um, And earlier in the ride, Patty was like, just drink.

If we have to, he's like, I will ask, I will ask somebody for us. If somebody with a car, you know, cause [00:24:00] there's people who do it supported and also just people who do like day drives through, he's like, I will ask. So we get to camp and there's a group that is supported a group of mountain bikers next to us.

Um, and they're a little bit down. Nobody's right next to each other also, which is really awesome. Spread out nice and spread out. that y'all share and everything. Yeah. Yeah. So it's, yeah, each designated campsite and you can only camp in designated campsites. And so this is one of the benefits of like having to have.

Um, permits is that they have the funds and the, the bandwidth to be able to, um, to provide these things that are nice and keep the area nice and not overrun with people or trash or anything like that. And it's just, it was just a really amazing experience to have all that out in the middle of nowhere and, um, be able to enjoy that.

But yeah, so, our campsite was, um, just a little bit down from these other campers and we hiked, we got off our bikes. And went on [00:25:00] a kind of a scary looking bushwhacking trail, which had been hiked before down to the water. And 

Patrick: because what we, because what we read on, I think it was on bikepacking. com.

Um, there was a note on the right with GPS saying that there was water there, but possible water access, um, possible water access, but would need a GPS. heavy filtering because of the sediment in the water. Um, yeah. So yeah, so that was right. At least where the marker was, was by our camp. So we took that too, too much to its word.

And , went to go to that little track to go filter filter for the thing. 

Karey: And it was like a six foot drop off. So we're like, Nope. So we hiked back. And then I was like, okay, go ahead and go ask the people and you wouldn't be made me go with you[00:26:00] 

Patrick: Yeah, I did you were you did not want to go over. You were saying I get I am shy you were shy but I wasn't about to carry All that water over, so I said, get your butt and let's go. And your water bottles. And your water bottles. And let's go hike over there. So. But I did make you approach them first. Yes, which was fine.

Which was fine. Stranger danger. Uh huh. 

Karey: But also, I was like, on our way over there, I was like, they're mountain bikers, like, these are our people. Like, there's a whole group of them, and they're, it's going to be fine, like, we're not going It's not like we're, you know, anyway, 

Patrick: It was definitely a little bit awkward walking out there though.

Cause they're all sitting around their fire or whatever they were just chit chatting, whatever they were. Anyway, yeah. Chit chatting or anything. And here we kind of come. With all our empty water bottles and everything in [00:27:00] hand, kind of with our heads down and just feeling, I don't know, I felt like we were being stared down.

Karey: Oh yeah, because it's like a, it's like a jaunt, it's like a walk into the campground. It's not like you're just like right on the side of like a walk of shame a little bit. Yeah, it's like a walk into the campground. And then we were like, Hey, our pad is like, can we, do you guys have any extra water? And they were like, so chill and they had tons of water and they totally filled us up and then offered us a LaCroix, LaCroix, whatever you want to call it.

Sparkling water. So we got sparkling water and it was so nice. Only thing would have been better if they would have had a Coke. Yep. They only had beer. But we, you know, we don't partake of the beers. So we, we took the sparkling water. And so it turns out they were all from Denver. Um, and some of them were fairly new to bikepacking.

Um, but they, I guess they weren't really bikepacking. They were like, you know, they were supportive riding. But still, um. [00:28:00] Anyway, so it's pretty cool. We talked to them for a little bit and then went on our way Thanks to Patti for pulling me out of my shell and making me ask for water. 

Patrick: Yeah Conversation with them and everything too and 

Karey: So then Patty got asleep on his really flat pad So he didn't get very much sleep.

So how much sleep did you get? 

Patrick: I honestly probably got about three to four hours of sleep. See, we were training you because not exactly. Cause not only was my sleeping pad not staying inflated, it was incredibly windy. Yeah. Way, way more windy than in the day. Um, it was just howling through the night, the entire, the entire night.

And Sand was blowing into our tents and everything. Like seriously, it was like the movies, like, I mean, I'm surprised. Our tent stayed up. [00:29:00] Yeah, yeah, it was crazy. Yeah, and our tent, even when it's taut, is still a little bit loose, so. It makes noise, yeah. Between, between the noise of the tent flapping around from that wind and the wind howling through my sleeping pad and.

Sam blowing in, I did not get very much sleep. 

Karey: I had earplugs in, so I slept through a lot of it. Thank goodness. But yeah, I woke up and our, our whole, you know, cause it's like red rocks. So I like our whole, my whole sleeping bag. Cause I slept on the side where most of the wind was coming from.

So my whole sleeping bag was just covered in a thin layer of, or a thick layer of, of red sand, um, as well as our whole tent. Um, but it kind of calmed down in the morning, like the wind, well, kind of, eventually. Yeah, so we didn't really cook breakfast. Did we cook breakfast? Um, I didn't cook anything because I just had leftovers.

You might have cooked [00:30:00] something. You had your coffee, didn't you? No, I didn't even have coffee. Hmm. I think we just, I can't remember what we did. I had leftover quesadilla. Oh, well, I don't know what I had.

 Anyway. Um, but we got going pretty good time. And then, um, it was still, it was still pretty windy though, but it was cold.

Patrick: Yeah, so we, it was because it was in South Farley County. It was just cloudy. Yeah. Um, and the overall temperature was also lower. It was like at least 10 degrees lower. Um, and yeah, it was chilly. Yeah. 

Karey: So, so I felt like I wrote a little bit better that day. Cause I tend to like just. Um, like the first day or so is usually pretty rough for me.

And then I, I kind of, each day gets a little bit better. I started off strong. Yeah. Patty started off strong. So we're like getting to, so [00:31:00] there's on the second part of this, you know, past potato bottom going up into hardscrabble is like, is like. Some pretty steep little kicker of little Hills. Like we were like, Oh no.

And so like, you know, of course I, I hike a bike a little bit. Like, I'm not going to lie. Like I totally hike my bike. Nope. Bike. Yeah. Hike my bike. Hiked my bike. Patty rode a lot of most everything, which is crazy. I can't even, Oh, I was very impressed. I was very impressed.

Or I was like, this guy's ridiculous. He's going to blow up later. No, anyway. Um, but the whole time I'm sitting here thinking like the, the. The client, the main claim out of, out of, um, mineral bottom is going to be like 10 times that steep and 10 [00:32:00] times a log. And so I was like, if this is just a little blip on the map that just shows mentally, like, don't, Like be familiar with what's coming up or like with a map, but like, don't like, I used to do this a lot.

Like when, when I first started, I was like a slave to the map, basically. Like, I'd like, look at all the things or, you know, look at the Garmin and see the hills coming up. Or I look at the Ryder GPS and it'd be like, be like, Oh no, like. Um, Oh, this red climb or like stuff that like, doesn't even show up as a climb and you're going over it and you're like, where did this freaking elevation come from?

You know, it just messes with your mind so hard. , so we're coming along and we've gotten through all this like steep stuff and then it's kind of like nice to like gradual or like, you know, kind of flat or whatever. And we come around and then we can see the climb, right?

So we're sitting there chatting and then, and then all of a sudden, we see this animal [00:33:00] like cross the road. Um, well, at first we weren't sure if it was a dog. Um, we were like, it almost looked like a coyote or a fox or something like that. Mm-Hmm. . Um, anyway, and then we saw a person running after it. Um, and so we're like, oh no. Like, did their dog escape? We just didn't know what was going on, but the person, was running up the hill way faster than we were riding way faster and we were like, no, like no way. Like, how on earth does a person like run that fast? The gal was like not running after her dog. I think she was just running with the dog. Right. So we'll get, we'll get to that in a minute. So then we start going up the hill, right.

 What was the hill like, tell me a little bit about the hill. 

Patrick: The hill, again, wasn't that bad. It was very [00:34:00] steady, grade wise and everything. Probably, probably somewhere about 8 percent grade or so. Um, but it was one of those nice hills where it's undulating up and down. So it's, it's not like you were just punching up straight steep the whole time.

Um, it's kind of leveled out a little bit while going undulating up. So it was actually a, a, a nice climb, um, comparatively to what we thought. You know, we, we both thought that we were going to be slogging up this climb for two hours. , 

I thought that I was going to like, have to walk most of it because I was just like, like what it looked like on the thing.

Karey: I was just like, I'm going to be walking for like miles. But we both, like, rode the whole thing. I think I stopped, like, once for a breather, once or twice, or something like that. Yeah, exactly. Um, but yeah, and it was really cool, because I was like, the whole time I was like, I'm climbing up a dragon's back!

Yeah. Because it's like all cobbly and like, kind of cracked rock or [00:35:00] whatever. I don't know, it's kind of cool. I felt like a badass. But anyway, so, we're getting up there, and then this woman, Is running back down the hill and we're like, what is this person even doing? 

Patrick: And at this point, remember she, she started basically the same time as us. She was a little bit ahead of us, but not that much. And we'd almost made it halfway up by the time she was running down. Back down. Yeah. 

Karey: So then by the time we were just cresting the top, she was almost back at the top again. Yeah. For the second time that we'd seen her. 

Patrick: She probably got back to the top. Like maybe five minutes after we got there. 

Karey: Yeah, legit. So we were sitting there like talking there was like a bathroom and we were, were just like off to the side of it a little bit trying to get some shelter from the wind.

And here she comes just like doo doo doo doo doo. Anyway, so I was like, who in the hell? Like, I seriously can't even describe how she ran. [00:36:00] Like, she was like a gazelle, like a cheetah. 

Patrick: Yeah. And she, she ran, she had a van parked at the top with whomever it was. She was with her partner or something. And, um, the dog that she was running with and she started heading down again for number three.

So Patty was like, go ahead. And I asked her, I was like, going again? And she was like. Yeah, I have five today. Yeah, my goal is five. Yeah, just casually. And I was like, Oh my gosh, this is like 2, 000 foot climb or no helmet because it's like 1800. Yeah. Um, anyway, and she's doing five of them. And so she took her dog out again.

Karey: So I think it was like every other one or whatever. She was going to take her dog out, which I think is like the cutest anyway. So And just from the look of her and how she was running, I was like, she has to be a pro runner. Like she has to be a pro. And then I noticed that she had a Hoka shirt on. [00:37:00] And, um, so anyway, so later after we get back, um, I totally did a little sleuthing and it turns out it was Allie Mack or Allie McLaughlin. Who is pro runner and she's like a super mountain runner and has claimed world championship at least one and, um, is this like insane climber girl, uh, woman.

So it all made sense. We're like, Oh my gosh, no wonder she's just like, I mean, she's just insane. Um, but I thought it was really, really cool to see her out there and see her in action because it was like no other. I was like, there's a reason why this person is a pro, um, because she's very good at what she does.

But anyway, so that was our little brush with fame right there. Yeah, it was. Um, and then we also ran into another guy who was starting out. And he came over and was like, want a beer? And we're like, no, he's okay. You know, well, you know, we just declined politely or whatever. And he was like, I've got, you know, I've got a bunch of extra.

And he's basically saying, [00:38:00] so he was doing three days, but he wasn't doing the full loop. 

Patrick: He was basically doing, um, from the top down, down onto the white rim. And then going to the near the descent or the climb of Schaefer. But there was a trail that goes into Moab from there.

So he was doing that. So he was basically shuttling from the white rim into Moab, 

Karey: Which I was like, that would be a cool ride too. But he, so he was getting dropped off there and his bike looks so pristine and like, it was amazing. It had some really cool rogue Panda gear. And this really cool thing to carry, uh, some beers in.

Um, and so he said he was bringing, cause he's, he'd be out there for three days. So he was bringing 12 liters of water. So he had all that on him, which is crazy. Um, 12 liters of water and yeah, and then his beers and then, you know, whatever [00:39:00] food or whatever, but anyway, um, So yeah, so that was fun to see somebody else, another human being doing some crazy stuff.

Um, and then the rest of the ride is just not to be mentioned. I see. This is where I kind of excel because I think I've had a lot of these experiences, which are just, you just put your head down and pedal and you just get there and Patty, poor Patty with his lack of sleep and I really think that's what it means.

I'm sure it was. Yeah, what happened? 

Patrick: I mean, how was the rest of your ride? It sucked but you had me but I did it. You did you Yeah, I mean as Carrie kind of mentioned earlier there was nothing there's nothing special about the end of the ride You Um, it's basically just a straight [00:40:00] road, which is one of the things that I hate the most when you can, you can see how far you have to go, but you know, you have to go farther.

And all you see is just the road, um, to your left and right or to the side of you, there's nothing, but just grass aren't any pretty sites or anything like that. Um, so it was just straight pedaling up this false flat, sometimes undulating, uh, dirt road. Um, and it was again, really windy. It was even more windy up there than at the bottom.

Um, it was a lot colder up there than at the bottom. And there's two things that I hate. It's cold as I'm wearing my Alaska grown sweatshirt. Um, I am now a fully, full fledged Phoenician. I am one with the heat. Um, cold and wind. Um, [00:41:00] so it was just, that combined with the lack of sleep, just, I was just not really having that great of a time.

Um, which happens, it happens. And you know, I peddled through it and put my head down and wrote, I kind of, at that point rode my own ride. Yeah. Um, we're kind of just every person for them. So, uh, but yeah, it could, could barely feel, feel my fingers or my toes, which is going numb. Um, and. Cause you didn't really have, you didn't have warm gloves on that ride.

We weren't expecting it to get that cold. Um, and then it also, as you're mentioning, it was, it was kind of like a case of, didn't take it as seriously as I should have, because yeah, we had from that point after we got up to the top of the climb 20 something miles. Um, so, but that 20 miles felt like [00:42:00] more than the 70 miles that we did the day before.

Um, and it's just these roads never felt they were going to stop ending. The headwind was terrible. Um, it was even worse once we got, once we made the turn onto the road back to the visitor center. Um, 'cause we were directly directly into the headwind. Into the headwind. Yeah. Yeah. Um, and it picked up even more and it was even colder , and I was hungry and, and it was uphill both ways.

It was uphill. Even though looking at the profile and everything. Yes. That was, it was like, see again, don't look at your map. Don't trust the map. It's like, this is a downhill. But that was some bs It was not a downhill, it was not at all. It was just. Sucked, but you know, that's what you get with these rides.

Sometimes it's not always fun and games. It's not always the most gorgeous thing ever. Um, [00:43:00] it's sometimes weathering through the elements and the internal battles that you're going through. And when, when, when you're in it, it sucks. But when I look back on it, It's, it's actually one of the aspects of bikepacking that I love, um, kind of look back on and be like, Oh yeah, I made it through those conditions and through that state and everything and I still finished and yeah.

Karey: So yeah. So then that'll help you when you get into a situation like that at RAAZ, see it's like such good training because you know there's going to be wind at RAAZ Oh, 100%. Yeah. Yeah. For sure. And you know there's going to be lack of sleep. Yeah. Yeah. So, yep. Yep. It's all good training. Yeah, so our second we went way deep into that one. So, I don't know if we have time for Yeah, we might have to do another one, but the other trip we went on just recently was kind of a more local trip [00:44:00] that Patty put together, actually.

Um, a little route finder, putting together, pieced together some other routes that we've done previously, um, around Roosevelt Lake, um, which is just about an hour north, northeast of Phoenix. Um, So, yeah, but I think we'll, I think maybe we'll, uh, save that one for another day, uh, so we can go into it. Maybe we, yeah, um, just because that was a fun one and, uh, much more enjoyable, much more enjoyable.

It was hard, but for different reasons. Um, so we'll, we'll chat about that one next time. Okay. Any questions? Last words. Uh, thank you for having me as a guest on this podcast. [00:45:00] And looking forward to doing Razz with you next year. Right?

We'll see. Some year. I think I have, I think I have a lot of, uh, that I'm putting off this year. So anyway, we'll see. All right. So with that, go have some type two fun and uh, we're signing out, signing out.