Episode 7: Dirty Details with Type-2-Funbassadors: Aliza, Heather, and Karey

Episode 7: Dirty Details Funbassador Report #1

In this episode, I have my adventure gal-pal Type-2-funbassador crew on as guests. This week includes Heather Snapp (California) and Aliza Richman (Oregon).  We generally leave the topics open and just talk about all things life, goals, and general Type 2 Fun.  We also cover any questions that listeners have sent in, so make sure that if you have any questions or topics you want covered, to let me know!

In this episode, we cover the following:

• Tips and Tricks for Getting out the door for your workout or adventure
• Training/Life Balance
• Motherhood 
• Sleep!
• Dealing with Anxiety around workouts and training
• Fueling for Adventure - all things snacks
• Our Upcoming goals for 2024 

As always, message me at:

IG: TheArtofType2Fun 
OR
TheArtofType2Fun@gmail.com

if there are any topics you want to see covered in one of our Dirty Details episodes!  

Transcript

Karey: 

 Action! Anyway, you guys have to tell me… or we tell each other about…  Actually, no, first, maybe we should introduce ourselves...I'm Karey. I'm the host of your podcast and I have here today….

Heather:

 Hi, my name is Heather. I am so excited to finally be part of this show. Thank you so much for inviting me. Thanks so much for having me. I can't wait to get into the dirt and details of Type 2 Fun.

Karey:

Awesome. And we know Aliza, but…

Aliza,

Yes, I'm Aliza, and I realized that the majority of the Type 2 Fun I've experienced in my adult life has probably been with these two Type 2 fun enthusiasts, and I think probably my most epic Type 2 Funs have also been with the two of you.

Karey:

aw. 

Heather:

Same… So I was thinking, I was trying to come up with a word like Type 2 Fun…field correspondent, or a fun-spondent…. Type Two Fun-spondent… I want a word  for these reports. or reviews that I think that we can offer in these segments.  I don't think I have it yet, but I kind of like Type Two Fun field reporter… I don't know. It feels good to me. I want to work on it. It's not ready yet, but I welcome your thoughts.

Karey:

So I'd be like, this is Karey, you're blah, blah, blah, blah, blah responder reporting from the trail or whatever?

Heather:

Yeah. Or just like for the segments where we're talking about things like food, gear, whatever that we come as specialists.

Karey:

Oh!

Aliza and Heather:

we have, you know, like a, we're a Type 2 Funds… Yeah. Type two funds fondant. 

Yeah …

Karey:

I think we can workshop that. 

Heather:

Yes, I would like to,  it feels good. 

Karey:

Aliza, I'm just gonna say I think we can workshop it.

Aliza:

Okay.  

Karey:

Um, okay. So the first question of our  Funspondent Specialist episode is What kind of Type 2 Fun have you experienced? Let's say, this month because it's been… it is like the end of the month.

So let's have a January report.  Who wants to go first? 

Heather:

 So, you know, when we talk about Type 2 Fun,  , we talk about it's not fun when it's happening, and it's fun when it's done. I definitely feel like I'm having the “it's not fun when it's happening,”  , in life a little bit. These are all great things to have in life, but I'm taking on a new training program right now, which we can talk about later, and every workout feels hard and challenging right now, but I'm not getting, the payoff of feeling fit yet, so it feels like a lot of challenge, but not fun and I'm not faster yet.

So, it kind of feels like the not fun part of Type 2 Fun. And then in life, we're going through a renovation, which the both of you know. And we are again grateful to have this in our lives, but we have no washer and dryer…but we have a toddler so that’s hard. And also we have like…one of the reasons why it took me a few minutes to get in here today is because we also have no heat for the next couple days because we're getting our furnace replaced.

And so we're trying to figure out how to keep our toddler warm right now.  So our Type 2 Fun has also extended into life the past couple of weeks. And also we're dragging our child through this as well. I think we'll look back on this and we'll have great laughs, but, it's just been challenging…like…surviving, not thriving.

That feels like how it's going lately.  I think it's just this thing where it's like, I'm doing a lot of things where we're trying new things, we're doing things, and it's just like challenging. It's challenging to get the workouts in, it's challenging to get life in, it's challenging to be with my family, it's challenging to be at work, you know? It's just finding time for all of these things is really hard.

And that's kind of how, that's kind of where it feels like it's been

Karey:

Yeah, so you're in the character building phase of the Type 2 Fun. 

Heather:

Yeah, I have a goal race in a couple months. I'm in kind of the first third of my training program. Which, doesn't feel like you're in a cadence yet or a rhythm of your training program.

 I'm  struggling to do new types of workouts. That's like mentally challenging. So every time I'm kind of going to a workout it feels just like mentally challenging to get through it because I'm not sure what to expect. Also, as you know, I'm sure we can both commiserate with this,  which is like,  I have between basically 5:00 am And 7:00 am to get my workouts done most of the week and if it doesn't happen by 7:00 am, it's not happening. I've got to get a kid ready, to get the dogs ready, get out the door and everything, it's just been really challenging.

Karey:

 Life challenging.

Heather: 

Life challenging, you know? Yeah, life challenging. Yeah! Okay, that's me.

Karey: 

Good for you! That's a lot of Type 2 Fun! 

Heather:

That's right. Aliza! I must know! What has been your Type 2 Fun this past month? 

Aliza:

Uh, well… my Type 2 Fun is that I am training for a 53 kilometer classic cross country ski race called the Birkebeiner in Hayward, Wisconsin,  and I am not a cross country skier. So it's, uh,  definitely a learning curve. Last year I did the 30 kilometer. Again, very new to cross country skiing then too, and it's been not the best winter here.

We haven't had really very much snow until about a couple weeks ago when we got a d p of snow, during which I decided I needed to, make up all this time, and I skied, like, three hours every day for, like, three straight days, and consequently developed an Achilles tendonitis as a result of that.

Karey:

No!

Aliza: 

So, uh, yep. So the Type 2 Fund I'm also experiencing is trying to quickly rehab my achilles while not losing fitness 'cause my race is in less than a month. 

Karey:

Yeah.  We should 

Aliza:

And, and you know, resting is something that's very hard for me, but I'm trying to be better. You know rehab and rest… and that's kind of my goals for this year are kind of more focused on… rehab and strengthening and PT so that I can continue doing these things.  So it's definitely putting my resolution to the test right now.

Karey:

Good for you!

Aliza:

Yeah, the biggest thing is kind of doing this new thing and training for it while living in a city that is at least an hour and a half away from snow… when there is snow.  And then also dealing with this injury the last couple weeks. And so then mostly biking and got out for one ski for one hour and it was very good and diligent, you know, diligent about not going over that and not having pain. I'm a little optimistic about that, so hopefully I can continue that path and I'll hopefully make it to this race.

But as a side note, this race is in Hayward, Wisconsin, which also hasn't had any snow this winter. So the race will only probably happen if they get a big d p of snow before then. 

Karey and Heather:

So what happens…what happens…

Karey:

Yeah, what happens if they don't get snow? Is it just canceled? 

Aliza:

Well, I think they have canceled it in the past because of no snow, but I know that they do make snow and for one, like there's like a loop one section. I think it's maybe like a four kilometer loop that they have man-made snow. So I think one of the options is to complete probably like shortened version of the course, doing multiple laps with about 20,000 other people. 

Heather: 

And how many weeks are you out from the race, Aliza? 

Aliza:

I think I'm like exactly four weeks out..you know…

So, lots of factors in the air, but most important thing is that I don't injure myself. I don't like, you know, tear my Achilles or something as a result of having this tendonitis. So I'm trying to be very careful. I've got some other big goals for this year besides this.

Karey:

First of all, I have to say… you ARE  a cross country skier. But if you're doing like 50k distance,  you are a skier. Like, you might not be winning the race, but you can stay up on your skis… for the most part…for 50 K. So give yourself the cred. 

Aliza: 

I'm kind of like, you know, you see the videos and like, you know, the pros are, doing these,  turns or, like, doing these side step turns, and I'm, like, the one snow plowing my way through the turn, trying to, like, watch where I go, kind of use the steering wheel, like, all the kid teaching ski methods so that I don't fall on my face, which I have done. You know, I have done that. But,  , so that's why I don't feel like I'm totally like a cross country skier. I'm like a cyclist who is  j ping into the sport. Maybe it's not totally smart, especially since I did all that overuse in one weekend might have bit…

Heather:

Speaking of overuse injuries, Karey, I feel like you might want to share your current Type 2 Fun status that sounds really similar to what's Aliza's going through.

Karey:

Well, yeah, so my Type 2 Fun, I guess, has just been that… so I'm getting ready to race the Black Canyon Ultra 60k in a week and a half, oh my gosh, so February 11th, and my training was going super, super, super awesome. And I had a really good Type 2 Fun 50 K race and it went really well.

Everything, including, I was able to go to the bathroom in the morning, like, my stomach was good, like all the things. I raced a really well-paced race, but it was definitely more elevation gain and loss than I had done in any of my other races. And so, I felt pretty okay after the race and even during the race, I was fine after the race was fine.

And then shortly thereafter, my knee started going kaput. So, it's just like your average like runner's knee stuff, you know, and I will say that I did a good job of like ramping up, but just a matter of like…ultra distances are long and I've never been a runner, just like Elisa said, she's not a cross-country skier. Like, I'm not a runner, but now, I'm a runner. I'm not a fast runner, but I'm a runner. But anyway, yeah, so I'm dealing with that. I've been doing the PT, like Aliza said, I'm trying to find that balance. And this is what I've talked with my PT a lot about, of like finding the balance between rest but then also making sure that everything just doesn't freeze up.

You know what I mean? ‘Cause you want to keep moving, but then not doing too much. So it's like, right now I'm just feel like I'm biding my time. So it's kind of like a slow motion type too fun. Like it's different, it's like a  mental slog for sure of like, okay, I'm learning some lessons right now. 

And then like, I would be on a taper anyway right now, but I'm just trying to be like, okay, my fitness is still there from the race. Nothing I'm going to do now is going to make me so I'm fit enough to like, go fast or whatever. So now it's just keeping me healthy and solid to try to be able to run the 60K. So that's where I'm at too, Aliza. So I feel ya. 

Aliza:

Yeah, I kind of feel the same way. I think I have the fitness and you definitely have the fitness and it's just like..you know, we weren't going to win the race anyway, you know…

Karey:

Speak for yourself! [Laughing]

Aliza:

Um,  I'm sorry. You're right. I made some ass ptions. So I guess I'm the ass. But, uh, yeah, I mean, my biggest goal is just finishing and also being there. Going with friends and having that special experience which, the Black Canyon is that special experience also. So, I'm going for those reasons as well as not, you know, if I finish the race,  , I don't finish the race, uh, I'm sure I'll still have a great time. But I'll do what's smartest for me and mental health and longevity of my athletic career, I guess.  

Karey:

Yeah. I will say Aliza, I'm glad that you said that it was your, not that I'm glad that you're having Achilles problems, but I'm glad that you said it was your Achilles and not your knee because I was going to be sad.

Aliza:

I know. Hermio-knee is doing well. 

Karey:

Yeah. 

Aliza:

Yeah. Hermio-knee is like…she's still a young whippersnapper. So, she's doing good.

Karey:

What, only a year old or how old is she now? 

Aliza:

Two years now. It's just, just was two years a week ago. 

Karey:

 Well, good job. 

Aliza:

Thanks. 

Karey:

Oh, and Heather, I'm glad that you are surviving. Maybe not thriving, but you're surviving. I mean, you are amazing. Like, I don't know how you get up and do all the things and you're, you're rocking it, girl!

Heather:

Oh, thank you.

Aliza:

Heather, like, how do you, like, what's your plan? Is it just getting your workouts in in the morning or, you know, it seems like a lot of training to get in with everything you got going on in your life.

Heather:

Yeah, so, I had a baby a little over two years ago, and ran afterwards but with, like, kind of no goal. And then, basically, around July, when we did our backpacking trip in July,  Karey and I started talking about doing this trail half marathon. I was getting back into running, and then I was like, okay, I want to do that. 

And then I was like, Oh, I want to train for this marathon. So I trained for the marathon, and did the marathon in December, which is great. And after that, I think that really re-sparked my fire and appetite for training for running specifically. Um, I think as you both know, distance is my happy spot.

I can go for a really long time. I'm the fast donkey of the group. I can go for a really long time.  And that distance is really comfortable for me and training for speed is not something that I'm built for but I really want to get better at and especially I think I have a long term goal of getting faster at longer distances.

And so my plan is coming off of the marathon. I took some time off, you know, like 3 or 4 weeks over the holidays, which was really great. I really needed that kind of mental reset and, I'm now focusing on a 10k training program to really work on my speed. So I'm really doing shorter workouts, but like, much more intense workouts. 

And that's helpful in a couple ways. One, it's working better for my schedule because they're shorter workouts. They're not, hours and hours and hours long. I can fit them in with my schedule a little bit better.  But, it's still really challenging because it's a lot…Like there's some strength workouts, which I'm like…seemingly allergic to. I have such a hard time doing these functional strength workouts to try to work on my core and supportive muscles that are so important when you know kind of doing faster tempos and everything and so it's a three month program.

I'm kind of like a month into it. My daughter's been sick. I've had work stuff, you know, like life gets in the way. And so I haven't been 100 percent adherent to my plan. Which of course, as you both know, is like it's not super realistic to be a hundred percent. We could all shoot for that. But    Yeah, so I'm just trying to get as much done as I can every week and then trying to find my way through these new types of workouts, which are like track workouts and tempo workouts and just like much higher intensity, as well as doing plyometrics and things like that. Which I just… I would rather do so many other things than these d b exercises and I just, you know ,they're like, relatively easy, and I just, man, I just can't. 

Karey:

Yeah.

Heather: 

It’s like…eating vegetables or something. I just…

Karey:

You can't run until you eat your vegetables, Heather.

Heather: 

Yeah, exactly.

Karey:

You can’t run until you do your plyo…

Heather:

Yeah. Exactly. 

Aliza: 

Those work outs, I think they're very unsexy workouts, but they're, like a little spice in your workout.

Heather:

Yeah. And Karey knows this. I've been texting daily with my struggles, but, you know, most of the time I try to wake up at 5:00 to 5:30, get some coffee, be out the door by 5:15. I get an hour of whatever kind of workout needs to be,  and then longer runs on the weekend, and then back home getting ready for work, and out the door. Yeah, it's been really hard and it's also just like really hard because I find that it's so easy for me to just be in that low and steady state.

Um, I love going on a long run and it's just so hard to mentally shift. And I feel like actually that's been the hardest part of some of my workouts have been  , just kind of the mental  focus needed to stay at that higher intensity and not just be able to kind of go into my fast donkey state. 

Karey:

Your happy place.

Heather:

Yeah. But I had a really tough week at work last week and just like a lot of other things and so  the weekend came and I was like, I need to just get out for a trail run. I need some trail medicine. I just need to get to a spot that feels really good for me and really restorative.

And so I went and did that on Saturday and it took me until like one o'clock to get out the door. I think that's another thing…You know, with all of these things that are in my life, it's like, I might have a goal to get out by like eight or nine and then it's like 1pm and I'm rolling out to get my run done, and I'm in a terrible mood, like nothing's gone right, but I'm, you know, trying to remind myself of that. Like, you don't have to be inspired to do your workout. You can just do your workout sometimes. And that's enough, you know? And, just keep showing up, you know, keep doing the work and it'll, it'll get through.

So it feels like those are happening. Quite often, frankly, I just really struggle with getting up in the morning. I don't know if you two struggle with the early morning workouts, but man, I just…

Karey: 

Well, that's what I was saying. I'm, impressed with your dedication because I mean, I guess if it really is the only way… I feel like I'm living a life of luxury because if it all fails, I can go out in the evening with my headlamp, you know what I mean?Cause you know, I'd like to get up early, but…And well, I guess I'm kind of opposite. Like, in the s mer here in Arizona, I have to. So, I think that's the thing right now is like, I know there will be five months that are coming up very quickly that  if I'm going to get my workout in, I'm going to have to be up there at 4:30 in the morning, and so right now, I'll do an evening workout. It doesn't bother me at all, because I'm going to have that too, where you just have to, Where there's no other option, so unless you want to be running indoors or in a hundred and fifteen degree heat. 

Heather:

Well, that's like an interesting question actually for both of you, which is like, do you have tips and tricks? Aliza, I know that you've also done a lot of early morning workouts and workouts  around your really demanding schedule. What are both of your tips and tricks for getting out the door when motivation is low or like, you know, fatigue is high?

How do you, how do you make it happen? Aliza?

Aliza:

It's funny, …I mean…you know, I did 5:00am CrossFit for a long time,  but that was really easy, because all I had to do was just get up and show up. I didn't have to think too much. And during the pandemic, I guess I would get up and do these workouts on my own, and that was a little bit harder to be motivated, but  I would definitely make sure that I would prep everything I could the night before.

Um, because I know I want to maximize sleep. I pretty much would, like, calculate exactly what time I needed to get up in order to get out the door and make it to CrossFit five minutes late  every time.

Karey:

At least you're consistent.

Aliza:

That was just kind of the norm. Yeah, I was consistent. I knew I was going to be there. But it's interesting now, like, I'm kind of living in a different life right now because I don't do 5:00am workouts anymore. I'm on this weird schedule where I do 6 on and 8 off. And I kind of just don't do a lot of workouts on my 6 on. And I just kind of save my workouts for weekends. 

I'm in a phase right now where I'm trying to maximize sleep, which I know must be so hard for you. Um, and that was actually my question, like, how much sleep are you getting? And are your workouts every morning or are you able to like, sleep every other day? ‘Cause I mean, sleep is also important to being able to even build, or have the ability to build your body up. 

Heather:

Yeah. Great question. I also feel like I'm like, “oh, no,  the dirty secrets are coming out.” But,  ,

Karey:

It's real life, Heather. It's real life.

Heather:

It is  real life and I feel like actually so much of what we see out there is Like the perfect success stories of nailing every single workout or like, you know making it all happen and I think the reality in real life is like having to make a lot of compromises.

So  hopefully this is helpful to someone to hear that. Like, it's it's not doesn't have to be all that. Um, or sometimes it's not. Basically, I feel like I start getting ready for bed almost as soon as my toddler goes down. So, she goes to bed around 8:00-8:15, someone's prepping her lunch for the next day, while the other person is cleaning up the kitchen, walking the dogs. We're just like, kind of into chore mode. And my husband also just wakes up super early because of his work and his schedule and so I think we're both pretty dedicated to getting to sleep early.

I think we keep moving it further and further back. So we go to bed earlier and earlier. So it's like, it's like 8:30. In fact, we just had this conversation the other night. We were like, well, it's 8:20…  And I was like, well, I'd like to get ready for bed in about 25 minutes. So I'm just going to read a few articles or watch something on YouTube and then off to bed I go.So I think ideally we're getting ready for bed around nine o'clock. We're in bed at 9:00 - 9:15 and we're asleep. Um, that seems to be the best.

 I'm  also somebody who struggles with anxiety and anxiety can come in a lot of forms, anxiety about parenting, anxiety about actually training, anxiety about training, schedule, work, parenting, it all, it can come and come at any time. Amd what happens is like, I'll go to sleep and then my anxiety will wake me up.

And that's something that I continue to struggle with. and so it can be hard to kind of chain those, like, great days of sleep together, and can then make it a choice between trying to catch up on sleep or waking up early and I would say like  50/50. 

You know, but actually, I'm pretty good.

Three days of the work week, I'm pretty good about getting up, getting my workouts in.  And even if I don't get my morning workout in, I bike to work,, bike home, and I try to, like, at least get, if I didn't get my workout in, at least I'm trying to move more throughout the day., I find the biggest problem is when I don't work out and I'm not moving throughout the day and I feel like the next day is just…I'm cratered, you know? It just like it takes so much more time.

Whereas at least if I'm not working out, but active, I think that that can really help kind of, alleviate if you didn't like quite your workout in or you're like catching up on sleep. I do think sleep is the most important thing in that first year of being a mom I definitely would prioritize sleep every single time. Like, if it came down to sleep or working out, sleep has to be the winner until sleep got a little bit more consistent for me and then I was able to kind of use that extra time when I wasn't pumping or breastfeeding or taking care of a baby who was awake. All that stuff I was able to then like take that energy and put it to working out. But that took over a year,  to get there.

So, sleep... It's okay, but not great. I don't know… I give myself like a “B” for sleep. 

Karey:

I think that's pretty good for having a toddler. 

Aliza:

it's kind of a double edged sword too, because sleep is important and then you get anxiety and, but you have anxiety, but then you get anxiety that you're not sleeping. And so it's like that cycle. So it's like, it's that balance, you know, you want to be your best and we're all doing our best. 

Um,  so, but yeah, it's, it's a challenge. Um, yeah. So I, I mean, I commend you.

Karey:

Yeah,  I don't know if I could function on as little sleep as you get. Like I am a grumpster, like not even a grumpster, but I am like…a zombie if I don't get my sleep. I just don't function. And that overtakes everything. Like, sometimes, I'll set multiple alarms and I will even tell Patty, like, “okay, tell me to get out of bed…” You know, the whole bit.

I mean, I know I need to be responsible for myself, but still, and sometimes I literally… I'll get up, start brushing my teeth or start doing whatever, and fall asleep, basically standing up. So it's really hard for me. I alluded to this earlier when it's a make or break…like, if it's in the summer here in Arizona and there is absolutely no other time, or let's say I have a goal coming, you know, a goal in mind, or I know that there is absolutely no other time when I can get that in. That's usually enough motivation for me to at least get up and do something.

I get the anxiety where  If I have a workout plan, and let's say it's like a, like, I'm going to run for an hour or ride for an hour, whatever it is, and then if I have to go to work right after…This is a new thing for me because I started my job in August, that was the end of last summer. And so it has been years, many, many years since I've had like a 8 to 5 job or an 8 to 4 job, the all day job. So, I used to be able to wake up in the morning in the summer and do my thing and then I could come back and I could take a nap and then I could go about my day even if it was just 15 minutes or it was kind of a reset.

Right? So the end of the summer was actually pretty hard for me because I was really figuring out how to balance being at work because that anxiety comes in when I don't have the amount of time that I think I want to. And what happens is, if I'm laying in bed and I start calculating the time that it's going to take me to ride or run, and then I come back and then I want to shower and then I have to like eat breakfast and da da, da da, all these things, then all of a sudden I have so much anxiety about going out that I'm like, “OK, I don't have enough time,” even though I've thought about the night before and plan my wake up time accordingly. And then I just stay in bed because, and I, I'm just like, “okay, I'll find a different time to do it.” You know what I mean? And then do I find a different time? No, I don't. Well, sometimes I do, but you know…

Heather:

I feel like we probably all fall into this trap where it's like, if we can't get all of it done, we don't do any of it. If we only have time to do 90 percent of it, all of a sudden we're like, “oh, we'll do it later,” but then later never happens.

And so then it's a zero instead of a, you know, it's a… 

Aliza:

Well, doing 50 percent of it is better than zero, you know. I heard that today on…I was listening to another podcast. Sorry, Karey.

Karey:

I'm offended.

Aliza: 

But yeah, this strength trainer, actually, was saying that, even if, you're supposed to get, say a three hour ride in, but you only get 30 minutes or 45 minutes, that's better than nothing and you just do what you can. We're human. We have life stuff come up, but yeah, that's like just getting like instead of a 60 minute strength training workout or plyometric thing, like you just do like even just 50 percent of it. It's better than nothing 

Karey:

I mean, I tell my piano students all the time. I tell them this all the time. Like,let's say they're required to practice 30 minutes a day, but then they're like, well, I didn't have 30 minutes. I'm like, well, did you have five minutes? You know, literally  any percentage more than zero is going to be okay. It's going to do you some good. And if anything, it'll calm the anxiety. That's what I need to remember. 

Oh, man. All right... I think because I kind of have the munchums right now,  we should talk about food.  

Heather:

My favorite subject… I alluded to earlier which is: I think we're all training for things that are coming up like on the horizon and so we all had kind of like big training blocks with like big training days I want to know what it is that you're eating before these big training Type 2 Fun sessions, because I feel like I struggle so much with figuring out what to eat and having enough time to eat it.

So many times I'm like at the trailhead and i'm like “I don't have time to digest this bar before i'm gonna like start running.” So then I don't eat it and then I'm in a hole before I've even gone very far.  So I want to know what you are eating before your big workouts or your big races, Like… what's working for you? What's not working for you? 

Karey:

You know, this whole running thing is a whole different story than biking. I'll say that with biking, I can pretty much eat most anything the morning before a long ride. Well, bikepacking is a little bit different because my stomach's a little bit more tender. So bikepacking before a big day, I'll usually eat something with carbs and protein. It usually ends up being like… I love the Picky Bar  You Can’t Beet It oatmeal or whatever that is? It has nuts, it has dates, it has all the good things. It tastes really good, it fills me up. And then I just make sure to keep eating thereafter.

But if i'm at home, I could make, like, a breakfast burrito… I could, you know, whatever I have time for, or I could not do anything and just eat on the bike and I'd be fine, whether it's chomps or goos or waffles or a candy bar or a muffin I grabbed on the way at the coffee shop, it doesn't matter. But running for me has been a whole slew of experimenting. That's another thing that I get anxiety about is when I'm getting ready to run on the weekends, I know that like, I run the best in the morning with little to no pre-food, even for a long run, because I just feel like I'll eat immediately once I start running or if I've had like a piece of toast. A piece of toast is great with either a little peanut butter or a little something like that, but like nothing heavy because then I just feel like, oh my God, it's horrible.

 So what happens is like, on the weekend, if something comes up and I don't get to run till later, then I'm like, “Oh, now I need to eat breakfast cause I'm hungry…and then I'm going to feel like crap when I run. And then, Oh, maybe I better just wait till the afternoon…” Anyway…so in generally like a little toast. But on race morning, I wanted something more solid, but we left like, cause you line up for the race, I don't know, like 20 minutes before. So we got there probably like an hour and a half before the race. So probably like five. And so that meant we were leaving the house at like four something.

So I premade a breakfast sammy. So it was just like, you know, English muffin, scrambled egg, ham, and I do vegan cheese because I can't eat dairy. And so we have those made already and then I just stick them into the toaster oven while I'm getting ready and then grab and go. So I could eat on the way there and by the time I lined up for the race, I had already digested.

So that worked really well for me because it's like nothing spicy. You know, it has carbs. It has protein, a little fat in there. Um, and then I'm pretty satiated. And I would say I did really well.  

Oh! But I also have to mention super salmon because  the nutrition starts the night before! 

Heather:

I am so glad to hear you talk about Super Salmon, Aliza, we have so much to talk about. You've heard it here first. The secret of Super salmon…the secret to your cross country race is right here. Karey, go…

Karey:

So, well, I was having food anxiety the night before, or the evening, the day before, and I was like, okay, what should I eat the day before the race? Because again, I have heartburn, you know, I have acid reflux, whatever, us in our older age, and so anyway, I texted Heather and I was like, okay, what is your best meal that you like to have before a big race?

And she's like, okay, I always do like mashed potato and salmon and maybe like a vegetable or something. So that's what we did. I made mashed potatoes. I made salmon with a little like citrus miso glaze, whatever it was, and some green beans. And it was so good. And I swear it gave me superpowers. So super salmon for the win. Tried and true. 100 percent Karey approved.

Heather:

You eat salmon, Aliza? 

Aliza:

Oh yeah. I love salmon.  Yeah. I love salmon, but it's funny. Like, I have had salmon before big rides like before, but my go-to is usually tacos, just because I love tacos so much. Um, sweet potato tacos with kale, particularly, and I usually do them with bison. Um, and I use grain free tortillas. Um, but this last year doing this 100 mile mountain bike race, you know, my bike packing race is, I've been thinking more about, more easy to digest meals, like white rice and chicken. And maybe, like, not very many vegetables, because those are more bulk forming. I have the ‘poop anxiety’ for sure, before a race, and sometimes, like, the beginning of a race, and then I try to minimize that. So, my go-to meal, I think, before the High Cascades, I think, was just chicken and rice. Although salmon and rice would be a good alternative now that I think about it. So I can still get that super salmon if I were to try that maybe before the Berkey.  Um, and then my breakfast, recently before races has been, using white rice and making a rice cereal just out of white rice with some cinnamon and some maple syrup. And then making an egg over medium  and putting it in there.  And that's been my breakfast meal.

Karey:

Sounds tasty. 

Heather:

Delightful.

Aliza:

I try to eat that at least two hours before, which is really hard for early morning races. Like the High Cascades started at like 5:30 in the morning, so I did not get up at 3:30 to eat that. I ate it probably more like 4:15 or 4:30-ish. It's hard to eat that early in the morning for me.

Karey:

Totally. Heather? I mean, I already spilled your secret…

Heather:

I've been struggling with trying to figure out foods that I can like, get into me and get out the door. Um, so much of the training that I'm doing, I end up just doing fasted because it's like too early. Like I can't…, it's like I'm doing other things.

By the time I kind of pay attention to what I've eaten, it's like, you know, too much coffee and not enough water, no food.  So not a set up for success. But, I think, so much of Karey, what you were saying kind of resonates with me, which is a lot of the runs that I'm doing just some toast, or maybe like, I'll do toast and some almond butter or a nut butter and some jam. And maybe a banana out the door if it's like a really long run and then I'm eating  consistently throughout the run when I was training for the longer distance. Things that I've done many of.  I would eat a lot of potatoes during my training runs. I was really trying to eat a lot of real food during those training runs.

But even then I don't think I was eating very much breakfast and so I would tend to eat more the night before.  A big effort to try to get more of the calories in so that it could be digested and then kind of using the morning is just really like not very much almost thinking of it as like The equivalent of almost like whatever your first snack is, you're just having that a little bit before the effort starts. But yeah, It's been challenging and I think the other thing that I'm really struggling with is with these really early morning workouts, refueling afterwards and trying to get food and that's quality at the end, which I think is so incredibly important.

And I'm just kind of like, I'm really waking up to that. which is like making sure that, okay, maybe if I am doing these more intense workouts fasted, that's totally fine. And there's like, I think that there's good evidence to say that that's probably okay, but as long as you're refueling, but you gotta be refueling or else you're just like, again, digging yourself into a hole.

So  it's been definitely more of a learning curve as I'm doing these, like, shorter,   more intense workouts and also more intense races as well, which are like, you're not really like, you're not really like, fueling for distance really, you're fueling for intensity.

So I really am finding that like, spending more time eating kind of well the day before, making sure that that's squared away, and then going into the day of, and so many of the stuff like you're saying is like so early in the morning, it's like it doesn't even really matter. Like, you're just like, yeah, yeah.

Aliza:

I had a coworker use this term last week to me that I never heard before, but he said he was a food doping and basically it's just like, he's just eating just so much. Like you said, like the day before and then before, you know, big runs, he's an ultra marathoner also, and before big runs and like during his runs, like he's, he's food doping. And so. I think that means he has like a target calories per hour that he's reaching. Do you guys, have you guys calculated that? And, uh, if you have like, what's your car per hour

Karey:

Like, during a race? 

Aliza:

During a race or even just…Sure. 

Karey: 

Yeah, I actually have done like, a  little test. Who knows if it's accurate, it was through like a, you know, nutrition thing or whatever, but.  I think my goal…and this again is like, the type of running I'm doing, the type of my body, how much I sweat, how much I eat, you know, like all that stuff.

But my goal is 240 calories per hour, which is about average. I think sometimes I could do a little bit more, I could do a little less. And  that’s about 60 grams in carbs. Um, and so like if I'm racing, at least running wise, I am doing mostly carbs even for a long distance.

Like if I have a stop, I might do something with some protein, like I try to get some like solids in me or like, you know, protein type other stuff or something with a little fat in it. You know, with the potatoes, I'll have boiled potatoes with salt on it, but also like olive oil, a little bit of oil on it, so I get some of that. Um, but yeah, about that 240 per hour is what I aim for when I'm for the long runs. 

Heather:

One of the things that's been really interesting is like, going from, like, the ultra marathons, which, for the Javelina 100 and, like, the 24 hour and 48 hour races,  kind of learned over time is that for me, it was like, more important to just make sure I was eating super consistently. So, my stomach didn't get a chance to shut down because I think, when you go too long without food, then it's it gets real dicey, at least for me.

Like, my stomach gets really sour, you know, I don't want to eat, I don't take in enough, and then it kind of feels like, you're kind of spiraling down.  And so much of, like, as we've talked about before, like, my Javelina recipe for success was every 20 minutes I was eating potatoes, and so I was taking, and probably, I don't actually know how many calories for me, it was more about consistency rather than calorie or quantity.

I was just trying to make sure I was always topping off. And trying to get as many calories as I could early in the race so that as like, kind of things deteriorated, I was in as good shape as I could. So that later in the race when I really couldn't take in much, I already had as much calories as I could have possibly imagined.

So like food doping sounds like a great thing. And then I think on the flip side, going over to like road racing and road marathons is like, that's all gels. Like, you're all just like fast acting sugars.  And , going away from whole foods,  like slow digestion, you  know, methods of ultra marathoning, which I know we,  we all use and like bikepacking and things like that, where you're really looking to keep as much real food and like low sugar foods, right?

I know we all have trouble with the sugary gels and chomps and things like that. Although we all love a gummy. We all love a gummy snack! But for transitioning back into marathoning I was shocked at how hard it was to get used to doing all the gels again. And that like that was a big part of like my training program was just like getting used to like taking in all of the gels and then for my race I was doing a gel every 40 minutes, then a little bit more in the start, but you're going, you know you're kind of like at speed that like there's not really any time to even eat well anything more than a gel. All of those gels and chomps and chews, like, a gel was the only thing I could really, gels and liquids was the only thing I could do because it's, like, so hard to chew while you're at speed.

Karey:

Totally.You just reminded me…so in the race that I just did which was my first long, long distance, ultra marathon, it was a loop, a 10 mile loop. I told my support crew, aka Patty, that no matter what, he needed to see me eat at least 200 calories or something that was like food, so it could be like chips and nuts, or it could be like… I had different things like little squares of 

PB& J’s, or a couple little squares of ham sammies, you know, just something. My stomach was okay, but I just didn't feel like eating any of it. He's like you gotta eat some of it! So I grabbed  like three of the mini squares of ham sammie and I got one down and then I was like, okay I'm off.

And so I was like, I'll just take these with me. So I start running and again I'm not going super fast, but I start running and I take a bite of one and I'm like blech…nd I'm trying to stuff  the rest of it in my vest and I've got like mustard all over my hands. Finally, I just threw it in the bushes.

I was like, Oh my God, I was like, don't tell Patty! Haha But like, you know, those are lessons you learn that I was just like, okay, I'm not one that can run and eat a ham sammie. But sure enough, when I was coming around, ‘cause runners are going the other way too. And so after the next lap, a guy was coming out as I was coming in and he's just like running and eating and ham sammie or whatever Sammy he had and I was like… How does he do that?  But yeah, there's just certain things that you learn that do and don't work. 

Heather:

I feel like a ham sandwich would be so much easier, though, than, like, some of those gels, like, those, like,  not, sorry, not gels, but those, like, chews and bars, I feel like are so chewy and take so much, like, effort to actually eat and get down that I feel like, a sandwich would be so much easier in some ways, than all that stuff, but yeah.  

Aliza:

Well, I'm not a runner, so I know that's a whole other logistical challenge, especially I feel like everything jiggles more and I feel like having the gut upset would be a huge issue for me if I were running, but eating is something I still struggle with, during these endurance races both, of the big things I did, the High Cascade 100 and then the Big Lonely. I had trouble eating. I would get nauseous and you know, mountain biking is a little more difficult because it's harder to, like, you have to strategically eat when you're able to and don't need to have both hands on the bar.

So, like, I was doing more gels or like I put calories in my bladder, my fluid. Um, but yeah, I just kind of got like the stomach rot eventually. And where it was just really difficult to, to even just take sips of my, of my drink. 

Karey:

Aliza, I was gonna ask you about that, and I was actually gonna say…I actually have, in my limited experience, I have more of an issue eating while mountain bike adventuring than I did on my long run. And maybe that's because our mountain bike adventures are like…you're really out there all day, but I don't know.

I was out there for like seven hours. So it was like, you know, a seven hour bike ride, I guess. But I have the same issue sometimes where my stomach goes pretty sour. I dealt with that on the RAAZ. It was like, I couldn't eat anything while I was sick. But one thing that Cassidy mentioned when I was talking with her, is that she mentioned that she has learned about herself kind of like what Heather mentioned, is that she just made sure, even if it wasn't big things, to like constantly, be eating pretty often, like even more often than she thought she'd need to because that's what helps her not get nauseous. And I had never really thought about that, because I usually sspecially on the bike and one to go like, Oh, it's been like an hour and change…I should eat something. And then I'll try to eat like all my chomps or, you know, all of my, you know, 200 calories right then. And it didn't even occur to me really that my stomach in that meantime has just  decided it's not gonna digest anymore. It's not time to digest. It's time to pedal, and then it goes sour.

So that's one thing that I am gonna think about more I think on my like bike adventures is to try to dial that in more and like whether it's an alarm set or I don't know figuring out just making sure to eat more often 

Aliza:

And, you know, I also think I was doing sugary things like gummy bears. And I feel like maybe that also contributes to having…this like, super processed sugar and maybe like go back towards more real foods. I think might be better too.

Karey:

Oh, totally. I mean, I did the same thing where historically I used bike products and stuff like that. Like I like the Clif blocks. I like the Scratch chews and some calories in my bottle and stuff, but I definitely have to substitute other stuff. Patty likes the Sour Patch kids a lot and I'd kind of on our training rides had some of his so that was one of my main sugar snacks at the beginning of RAAZ and I thought it was okay at first and just like… I have not touched one since like it sent me over the edge… that I will never But it really made me realize like I couldn't handle it like it was no good. 

Aliza:

I haven't had, I haven't had a gummy bear or gummy worm since The Big Lonely, and I have no desire to buy another.

Karey:

Heather, maybe that's the secret. Maybe you need to get sick from gummy worms and then you won't want them as your afternoon

Heather:

I know, oh my gosh! Karey knows my plight! So at work we have a canister of sour gummy worms and I was telling Karey, I was like, I feel ashamed to admit how much I like eating these and they make me feel terrible, like terrible afterwards and I'm not even working out. Um, and so I've been trying really hard to, like, kick the habit. It's so hard. So maybe what I need to do is just, like, truly OD on them. Like, I need to truly, go too far. Make myself do, like, a 5K or something like that, and

Aliza: 

And just eat a bunch right before you do your workout and then…

Heather:

I can only imagine just that! They make me feel bad, and I'm not working out. Like, I should take that as a clue, and I just can't. And I'm just like…but they taste so good. 

Karey:

Oh my gosh, so good. Alright, so, good snack talk. Aliza, have you asked anything? Do you want to ask anything?

Aliza:

Actually I want to know, Heather, I don't think I've gotten the report, like, what races are you training for? We ever went into that. 

Heather:

Yeah, so I have a 10k for speed that I am targeting at the end of March, which feels so short.  But again, this is like in the pursuit of getting much faster and stronger and hopefully the idea is that speed at shorter distances will translate to speed and efficiency at longer distances.

So I think that the hope is that I'm really able to kind of really focus on speed for the first part of this year. So I've got a three month training block that I'm doing now until the end of March. I'll do a 10k as kind of a check in, and then I think I'm gonna transition to either,  probably a half marathon with the same goal of  being  really focused on speed,  and then transitioning hopefully then into like a Goal marathon road marathon,  , either in fall, winter of 24 of this year,  or early spring of 25.

I think my idea is like, I really want to be as fit and fast as I can be on the road. I used to do that a lot and it's been years and years and years since I've done that. So it's been really fun to  be uncovering that part of me again. It also is, again, fitting really well with my lifestyle, what I can do right now, which is like super challenging, but like I just don't have as much time to like be out on the trails for, for the entire day or something like that.

And then I think long term, you know, in several years from now, I really want to be going back to the ultramarathon distances. I really want to do a 100 miler again. Um, and then, like, kind of go from there… Cocodona 250, even a couple of years, who knows? Um, but I feel like those are really sweet spots for me.

Hopefully this focus on speed and strength will help me progress towards those ultimate goals. So kind of like short term, mid term, long term plans as always.  Um, yeah, that's what's on my mind right now.

Karey:

I love it. 

Aliza:

Ah, nice. My other question for the two of you is what is our next Type 2 adventure together going to be? 

Heather:

I was thinking about this. Great question. 

Karey:

We need to get something on the books. 

Aliza: 

We talked about the West Coast in Vancouver Island.

Heather: We did…I would love to do another bikepacking or backpacking  thing. Just because, and you did mention, I was actually just thinking about this. The West Coast trail, but something with like… some razzle dazzle.

Karey: 

Razzle dazzle! haha  I mean, I am, I am up for whatever. You just let me know and I'll try my best to be there. We could, we can hike, we can… we can  ski, I don't know. 

Heather: 

Aliza?

Aliza: 

Will you bikepack again with us?

Heather:

I would yeah, for sure. Well, one question I wanted to go back and ask you, Aliza,is like, what are your 24 goals and plans?

Aliza:

Well, today I'm doing the Berkie on February 24th. Hopefully, there's snow. And then I signed up for a 93 mile gravel race on April 28th. The former Gorge Roubaix, which is now the Gorge Gravel Grinder. Oh, before that, I'm going to  Phoenix and Karey's going to kick my ass.

We're going to have the Karey and Patty bootcamp B& B.,  And that'll hopefully get me in shape for the gravel 93 miler race. 

 Um, and then me and my friend Jess, we both got into the lottery for the Leadville 100 mountain bike race. 

Heather:

I didn't know! I knew you were excited, you were thinking about doing it, but I didn't know that you got in! Congratulations! 

Aliza:

We are both really surprised that we got in, actually, because I think it's pretty challenging to get in, but I don't know, we both, I guess, had a compelling case and I don't know, maybe they need more women to participate. I don't know, but I'll take it. Um, so yeah, we're, I'm excited to train for that and train for that with Jess. My other plan for 2024 is to do the Big Lonely again.   Perhaps even do it solo,  which would be my first ever solo bikepacking experience, actually. 

Karey:

Awesome. Oh my gosh!

Aliza:

That's, that's my 2024!

Karey:

Those are some good ones. And I feel like they're spaced out. Like you're going to have some solid training, obviously, because they're big events. But like, you'll also get to have a little bit of your own time and be doing what you love. And I mean, it's all what we love. But you know, yeah. But the Big Lonely is in October, right? 

Aliza:

Yep. First weekend of October.

Karey:

Oh my gosh. That's so great. And hopefully, hopefully I'll be able to see you

Aliza:

Be my support? 

Karey: 

Yeah, in Leadville. So.

Aliza:

I booked a campsite.

Karey:

You did?

Aliza:

Two campsites actually in Leadville. Yep.

Heather:

When is, when is Leadville? 

Aliza:

It's August 10th. Got two campsites. Come on out.

Heather:

That would be amazing.  

Karey:

But yes, we should get to planning our next adventure, and yeah.  I don't know, I have no idea what's going to happen with my running, but now that I'm a little bit injured, if you will,  I'm like, okay, if this passes I could totally see at some point within the next, not calendar year, but within this next training year, like from now until the next year, probably try a 100k… not a hundred miles.

But I think I would try a 100k. So that's what I'm thinking, but in the meantime, it's getting through the 60k and then I am going to get on the bike, the gravel bike, ‘cause we're going to do RAAZ again in May. And then it's just like, whatever, I think. And then probably just reboot for fall runs or rides or whatever. 

Heather:

Well, in, in there, I'm gonna make you do another trail race with me cause we had so much fun. 

Karey:

Well, yes, somewhere in there we're doing that. I don't care the distance like let's just do it.  But that means I'm gonna have to work on my speed because you're gonna be a little a fast little donkey!

Heather:

A fast little donkey, I hope so. Oh my gosh! Does it feel, maybe this is like something that you can all like, maybe after, you know, we've done these big bikepacking adventures, I certainly felt like this after The Great Divide, where you're like so used to working at this like, really, like you're  Output forever is like, you know, huge, but like  kind of consistent, but like not super intense speed, and so I feel like switching gears into like a higher intensity thing is just like so hard, even if you're super fit, like you're like super fit at this…I think Deann said it, she's like, I could go for like nine hours at like a BPM of like 150. But she's like, anytime I tried to go above 150 it was like, whoa! 

Karey:

Well you have one match to burn and that was it!

Heather:

Yeah. 

Aliza:

Yeah, I feel the same way Doesn't road racing seem like impossible now? 

Heather:

I remember, coming back from the Great Divide and doing a cyclocross race and being like, okay, well, like, my body was like, we don't do that. We like, don't do this anymore. We're not ready. 

Karey:

Well that same thing happened to me Heather when I got back from The Great Divide, Aliza, we went to the Enduro up in Washington.

Aliza: 

Didn’t you crash? 

Karey: 

No, that wasn't, no, that was not the crash.  That was at Tiger Mountain. That was a different thing. But that was, we were pre-riding the day before and we got shuttled up by, what's her name, that like saw us in her truck. So she shuttles, so this is on Chuckanut.  And, I tried to get on my bike to go downhill and just the first little thing, both of my quads and everything seized up and I couldn't ride at all. And I basically had to slide on my butt the rest of the way down. It took me like an hour to get down what took you like three minutes to get down? My legs were like, “we do not know.” Like I could have ridden forever at whatever, you know what I mean? ‘Cause we'd also come from altitude. So I felt like I was like, wwimming in oxygen, but my legs were like, uhuh. 

Aliza:

It's funny, I had the same experience after we did the Oregon Timber Trail. I think the very next weekend I went up to Tiger Mountain, I think. And I was, first of all, like the geometry of an enduro bike. I just felt so wrong after riding a hardtail for two weeks. And, yeah, I had, like, a terrible race. I just felt so weird, like, going  on this like weird geometry. It was like, it was so bizarre. Its not a good idea to do that. Well, and like, you know, and like, everything's going by you so fast. You're like, I can't process what's going on. 

Heather:

I feel like that's how it's been when I’m trying to be a little bit faster running is I feel like my legs are, like, okay for kicking it up a notch and I'm capable of doing it, it's just, they're just, like, not used to it, and where I am really trying to, like, bring them along.

Karey:

I loved when you sent me a text when you were starting these workouts and you're like, “so I'm supposed to like, I'm having trouble figuring out the nuances of fast… like I have fast, and then I have like, maybe I'm kind of going a little bit less fast?” And I'm like, oh, I would be the same way.

Heather:

Yeah, yeah, those like upper speeds are just  a little black box for me right now, but I'll get there. Yeah. 

Karey:

 I am totally all about trying new things right now. I love it. I think it's really good. I mean, all of us are trying new things like running and skiing and fast running.  I think it's really cool because it, I mean, it just helps us grow into stronger, more resilient people, I think. And it's super awesome. 

Heather:

Well, I was thinking about this. I was thinking about this because one thing that I think is really exciting is talking about all of this and also just hearing from other people who've been on the pod. It's just that,well, there's like, I think of some people being really like specialists, like mountaineers and they're really into a dedicated sport and they like to go deep into a dedicated sport and want to achieve as much as possible in that one domain. And what I think is really interesting about, like, Aliza, you, and Karey, and Jess, and others, is that we're kind of these, like, liberal arts students of Type 2 Fun, where we're, like, dabbling in a bunch of different things…Cross country skiing, and bikepacking, and backpacking, and roadrunning, and ultramarathons, and like, we're all, we're just like, really interested in the experiences, not so much necessarily like the discipline, and I think that's a really fascinating thing that you don't hear so much about, right? A lot of times you hear about people being really focused on like, kind of one particular discipline sport. 

Yeah, and we're all over the place!

Aliza:

We're Renaissance,  we're Renaissance Type 2 Fun-bassadors. 

Heather:

Funbassadors!  Oh my gosh, we did it! You did it, Funbassadors! 

Aliza:

Karey…Karey….

Karey:

Put it on the list and we'll workshop that.  We're back to where we started! Back to the drawing board!  Yeah, we'll keep working on it. Keep it coming!

Heather:

On that note…

Karey:

…yes….

Heather:

Yeah, well it's been so fun to talk with you all about fun, Type 2 Fun stuff.

Karey:

I concur. We'll do it again soon and hopefully we can get our other colleagues in here, our other fun-bassadors. 

Aliza:

You keep saying it and it will become more natural.

Karey:

I will. I'll do that tomorrow. 

Heather:

Well ladies, love you both forever, and thanks so much, and I can't wait to talk with you both again soon!

Karey:

Okay. Have a good night. Tell all the puppies bye too. 

All: 

Bye!